New 403 owner

[Max Tone]

Now I wonder what Bristol did with all the old 411 bits, such as V8, box, suspension, axles, interior, brakes & anything else they upgraded.

Sounds like a kit of parts for your 403 Hal! The basic chassis has barely changed since 1940s, so most later stuff should be able to be retro-fitted.

Rob

[Hal]

Originally Posted by Max Tone

Now I wonder what Bristol did with all the old 411 bits, such as V8, box, suspension, axles, interior, brakes & anything else they upgraded.

Sounds like a kit of parts for your 403 Hal! The basic chassis has barely changed since 1940s, so most later stuff should be able to be retro-fitted.

Rob

I like the idea Rob, but could you fit a Chrysler V8 into the engine bay of a 403 ?

If yes, then Chrysler V8 & torqueflite box, would certainly make a more "authentic" addition, without hopefully breaking the bank.

Hal

[GREG]

Anything is possible with time , money and skills. It just depends on your resources of all three.

I would have to keep it simple as I am very limited on all three so would keep it as simple as possible. Get a good local old school mechanic to have a good look around it and get his thoughts as non of us can see it.

Greg

[Max Tone]

Anyone ken what changes were made to 406 to accept V8 for 407 & whether any V8 ever fitted to pre-404 body-style?

Might Toby be persuaded to re-build a prototype, even if only to rolling body state, to identify kit-of-parts (probably mix of new mounts, cables, linkages, pedals, expendable susp/brake/axle bits etc. & similar basic s/h running-gear bits from upgrades) required for home/trade conversions that Bristol could sell or even use for factory upgrades of 401 to Blenheim spec!

I think we can exclude fitting Fighter T V10!

Anyone ken comparative drag co-efficients from 400-412 & Blenheim?

Rob

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by bkz411

The (v6) was a typo - should have been "series 6", the first/only one ever
made.

It may be the only one referred to as the S6, but it's not the first full rebuild and modernisation/upgrade Bristol have done. Back in he late 1990's they did this one which was also converted to LHD in the process.

[Lawnmowerman]

Hi I seem to have gone a little further down the same road as you,nice car no
engine and not really interested in expensive engine options just drivability
and reliability.If you want a chat phone work on 01617639714 Â.

[Hal]

Originally Posted by Claude

I would say the core value of a Bristol is not Britishness, but singularity

That was a detailed response.

I’m afraid that i can’t really comment upon the singularity of various individuals, since i really don’t know what they did etc that made them so singular.

I found your comments about the fraternity of Bristol owners to be very illuminating. Especially your observation (hypothesis maybe ?) that there is more freedom in Bristol ownership about making changes / tailoring the car to one’s own needs, and those choices then being embraced or at least not shunned.

My own personal preference is to see if a BMW engine & box can be fitted into the car, because of BMW having a strong DNA link to the Bristol 403.

Cheers
Hal

[GREG]

Hal,

A 405 in Sweden is also having / had a BMW engine replacement and much more. Very interesting project and will probably be a superb car if the rest of his work is anything to go by.

Dan S-born Refining

Maybe he can give you some tips.

Greg

[Bellerophon]

There has been a lot said about Bristol's and how they fit into the modern
world, but the position was a much clearer years ago and its status was
understood by people who knew about cars.
I bought my 401 some 48 years ago when it was 10 years old, just after it
had been to the works and had some updating done. The reason I bought it was
that there was nothing else which came near it for quality or performance,
I was looking for the best and the Bristol was. This was a simple decision
albeit an expensive one at the time as the new cost was almost 3.500 GBP
in 1952 and I paid a third of this in 1962 which for someone who had just
finished as a De Havilland Apprentice was a lot of money and one could buy a
house for that.
I have never regretted buying the car, in fact it has turned out to be one
of the best things that I have done, in as much as it has given me endless
pleasure made me friends from all over the world, has been welcomed into
many countries, but above all it is established as one of the family. I hope
that I will still be able to drive it for many years, as I joined the new
Bristol Owners Club in 1964 when it was part of the BMW Club, I was the
youngest member, alas I am the only original member left now, but it is good to
see the club so well established.
My regards,
Bellerophon

[GREG]

I think Bellerophon probably has a unique perspective on Bristol cars and even owned my 408 back in the 60's but chose to keep the 401 -- hmmm !

Having seen and been in the Bellerophon 401, it is remarkable that a car more than a half century old can still go down the road as good as some modern cars. Bristol took a superb bit of engineering and design from BMW and made it better and made it their own.

Given the same circumstances today, I wonder what 10 year old car someone like a young Bellerophon would buy ? Would it be a Bristol ? In my mind it is a much harder choice as I don't believe that any model stands out as much as the Bristols in that era and I can't imagine anything being so usable in 60 years time.

So, what would a young Bellerophon buy today ?

Greg

[GREG]

[quote=GREG;2459]Hal,

A 405 in Sweden is also having / had a BMW engine replacement and much more. Very interesting project and will probably be a superb car if the rest of his work is anything to go by.

Dan S-born Refining

Hal,

Dansborn said that he could complete the car in either convertible or as you like for around 35 k. Even for a Frankenstein special it seems about half price and a very usable car at the end!

I think if you just like the Bristol for it's looks it is very tempting.

Greg

[RGSchmitt]

"This was a simple decision albeit an expensive one at the time as
the new cost was almost 3.500 GBP in 1952..."

The is the same reported price as most Frazer Nash models in 1952! A
few weeks ago I looked up various inflation tables and this was one:

http://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/ Also there are similar
tables to show the pound-dollar values over time. It was more
interesting than doing my taxes!

Bob

[Hal]

Originally Posted by GREG

Hal,

A 405 in Sweden is also having a BMW engine replacement

Greg,

Thanks for that info. I've sent him an email, so will keep you informed.

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

The reason I bought it was
that there was nothing else which came near it for quality or performance,
I was looking for the best and the Bristol was.

I joined the new Bristol Owners Club in 1964 when it was part of the BMW Club,

With your experience, it would be very useful to know what the original sentiments were about the Bristol, when they didn't have the heritage or history as a car maker, and why people bought Bristol's ?

Also how did the other members of the BMW club view the Bristol owners ? as cousins or interlopers ?

thanks.

[Bellerophon]

The question how did the members of the BMW Car Club view the Bristol
owners.
Well I entered the first Bristol concourse held with the BMW club at Esher
in 1965, The event was split into two sections, the Bristol half was run as
one class for all models of Bristol cars, being just a first second and
third ect. I had fitted my car with Cintura radial tyres (one of the first in
the country) the judges did not like this as it was not in the original
specification so marked my wheels and tyres down. Dispite this the car came
fourth overall the winner being Lt.Col. G.T.E.Grey with his 406Z ,of
interest was L.J.K.Setright's 405 which came seventh.
We ventured onto the BMW section and were very taken with the very good
looking type 507 sports car with the V8 engine however this was only LHD, the
general feeling among the people present was that it was great to have an
enlarged club with much more of interest to look at. (no them and us at all)
In those days the Bristol News appeared in the BMW magazine and if you look
on the CD the club issued covering the magazines you can see how the two
makes were run side by side.
Hope this gives you some idea of how it was at the start, it was only when
the number of Bristol owners grew that a parting of the ways took place.
Bristol Cars always had a special place being manufactured by the Great
Bristol Aeroplane Company similar to Rolls Royce it stood for something which
I do not think can be quite matched now.
My regards,
Bellerophon

[Des]

The Swedish 405 with BMW engine is interesting, I've no idea of exact measurements but I suspect a modern BMW 6 may need some vaseline to squeeze into a Brizzy 6 engine bay. Would be interesting to visit a scrapyard with a measuring tape in hand.
I think maybe the path of engine change can be done two ways, easy / simple, (which may become difficult) or complicated / involved (which will become near impossible).
For me, easy would be finding an engine gearbox combo which can fit in the available space, with the minimum of adaption / mutilation of the car, with self contained ignition in the form of distributor and a carburetor.
Difficult would be using any engine produced in the last decade or so, which will invariably involve a whole world of pain in the form of electronic control, there are various ways of doing this, but all are complex and mean a lot more to go wrong.
I'll have to begin carrying a tape measure at all times, and see if I come across something tasty, the Japanese have made some quite nice motors, and If there's one with the ideal dimensions I suppose it would have to be considered, the rotary Mazda Wankel thing would take up little space, equally different would be the Subaru boxer. At the moment a large amount of cars have been taken off the road via the scrappage scheme, there have been many stories of excellent cars, some low mileage one owner, condemned in the belief that a nasty Korean thing is better. There are yards such as U-Pull-It with cars lined up for stripping before crushing. I'm thinking it could be tempting to put my cars original engine / box to one side, and possibly have something more powerful that I won't be scared to thrash.

[Hal]

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

The question how did the members of the BMW Car Club view the Bristol owners.

Well I entered the first Bristol concourse held with the BMW club at Esher
in 1965, The event was split into two sections, the Bristol half was run as
one class for all models of Bristol cars, being just a first second and
third ect.

Well i guess if they shared a club, then its seems fairly clear that both BMW and Bristol owners at that time, accepted the shared ancestory.

If this is the case, then perhaps the case for judicious use of BMW parts is stronger, and doesn't dilute the character / heritage etc.

Regards Hal