|
For eagle eyed readers / those that are interested..Kiley Clinton seem so far to have done an excellent job and I am now leak free on the steering front. Putting it all back together was a lot quicker and easier than taking it out - just under a couple of hours.
As noted earlier, the cills have been attended to but the aluminium covers were beyond saving so am having new ones made up by a chap who seems to be taking an age. He's doing them to the precise shape and so on of the original ones so hopefully not too much fettling will be required. Have booked car in at end of June for the rumble at the rear to be investigated - hopefully nothing major but I won't know until it's apart. That's all for now. Andrew |
Did the power steering improve noticeably with the newly fettled rack? I always thought your car was under assisted and wasn't sure if it was wear or adjustment.
|
Difficult to describe precisely - bit like Goldilocks and the 3 Bears it now seems "just right"!
Head gasket(s) now given up ghost(s) so expect questions/request for suggestions as to improvements to heads and possibly cams in near future. The rumble at the rear will have to wait... Andrew |
Regarding heads etc, I think there is a good chance that you already have a slightly hotter cam than standard as I think the parts for the rebuild would have come from the American Car Care Centre who were offering a mildly improved profile as standard at the time. Check cam bearings in the block and make sure the heads have suitable inserts for unleaded along with the right valves.
The heads themselves were pretty good. The breathing was let down by the inlet and exhaust manifolds. The single best improvement for my money would be a Weiand 7503 intake if you can find one. The original cast iron inlet forces the fuel / air mix to make a very tight turn immediately after it leaves the carb. The Weiand is about an inch taller and sweeps round. With the Edelbrock replacing the Carter carb the combined height is very similar to original. I don't know what is currently available by way of exhaust manifolds but I thought I heard that SLJ had found someone to make an improved version although there is very little room for this without modifying the chassis rails. That was a bit of an extreme option for me. |
Heads now off - not great to be honest a couple of valve guides non existent, two bent pushrods, the cam is pretty badly scored and the timing chain is US. On plus side no scoring in bores. Have ordered up cam and followers from States as poly cams not easy to find - the rest of the stuff I can get over here.
Still amazed how well it drove so am expecting great things when all back together again. For the time being am going to stay stock as it was quick before and once it's all working properly it should be even better! The Weiand inlet manifold I'll keep an eye out for but as you say, they are rare and command big money - likewise SLJ's excellent exhaust manifold - it is a wonderful improvement but its an investment too far for this year (and I'd need to change the exhaust to get the best out of it). Quick question - what colour was the intake manifold originally? Mines currently red which seems a bit garish. It needs tidying up and was thinking of toning it down a bit - has anyone done similar? |
1 Attachment(s)
I'm pretty certain all the 318s in 409 and 410 originally had red inlet manifolds.
The Weiand manifold is aluminium and I thought that looked better. To stop it corroding I etch primed it and painted it silver. With any luck I have attached a picture. |
Quote:
Roger M |
Thanks for that Roger - they do look brilliant and work even better!
|
Quote:
"The V8 Bristols, even if they are actually in quite a bad state, have so much torque that they cannot help but impress somebody who is used to lesser vehicles. So beware, even though one might seem great at first acquaintance, there may be a long way to go before it is actually up to the mark. I speak from experience" Roger M |
Thanks...I think! To be fair - head gasket apart - nothing major has come up that wasn't noted in the pre-purchase inspection report as something to be dealt with. The head gasket I put down to very little use over the last 7 or 8 years and then 3500 miles in relatively few months.
No doubt there'll be more bugs to eradicate as the miles roll on but that's part and parcel of taking on new ownership of any classic car. |
Andrew,
Have you considered having the cylinder heads compression tested before refitting them? Brian |
Morning - if you mean pressure testing to check the internal structure of the head for cracks and other leaks then yes. If you mean something else please enlighten me!
Thanks Andrew |
Andrew,
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I had what I thought was a blown head gasket on my 410 last year but unfortunately I found a crack in one of the heads. I think the crack may have been caused by the butterfly mechanism which controls the choke in the offside exhaust manifold which was sticking. As I had fitted an Edelbrock carburettor with automatic choke, this device in the manifold was no longer required, hence its removal. With the additional heat build up it had also caused a small hairline crack to develop in the manifold, which fortunately I had caught in time and was able to have it repaired. I ended up giving my engine a complete top end overhaul including a new timing chain, cogs and water pump. If you haven’t had the exhaust manifolds or the water pump off a Bristol V8 (318 engine particularly) before, please note, some of the threaded holes for the fixing studs and bolts that secure these parts to the heads and block are actually drilled through into the water jacket of the engine and head. These studs and bolts should have a sealing compound applied to the thread prior to fixing. I learnt the hard way! Brian |
Thank you Brian - that's really helpful info and advice.
I'm going to be doing a complete top end rebuild as well - looking through the history it was last apart 20+ years ago and while it's all apart seems a false economy not to. Another question if I may - I'll be replacing the cam and followers and will be using plenty of cam lube - but a lot of engine builders particularly in the USA recommend using break in oil/running in oil (straight 30W with ZDDP) even with just a cam change. I don't mind doing it if it really has some benefits - do you or others have a view? Thanks Andrew |
Andrew,
I didn’t need to replace my cams but after inspecting the cams and tappets, when assembling I poured a small quantity of oil into the cam/tappets prior to inserting the push rods. You are probably aware that when fixing the timing chain cover the engine sump should be removed to do the job properly. The previous person who had my timing cover off didn’t appear to do it and the result was a slight oil leak. I didn’t use any special oil after putting everything back together but I did treat the engine gently for a short time before checking the torque on the heads again and then all was back to normal. When I was dismantling the various bits off my car, the job was made quite difficult, again by the previous mechanic who used steel nuts on the exhaust manifold (a number of studs sheared off in the head during their removal) and a combination of “make do” bolts and studs elsewhere, I decided to replace all the nuts, bolts, studs and washers (washers where necessary/required). Replacement brass nuts are readily available for the exhaust manifold with the correct thread. I am not sure which part of the country you are in but please feel free to give me a call if you need a quick answer when putting things back together. My details are in the members section. Brian |
Thanks Brian
I'm at the southern end of the New Forest so too far to pop round (lucky for you!) but I won't hesitate to take you up on your kind offer if needs be. Andrew |
My understanding is that the flap in the offside exhaust is totally unrelated to the type of choke you have. The choke on the carburettor provides richer fuel to get the engine started. The flap in the exhaust shuts down the offside pipe which means exhaust gasses from that side of the engine have to pass through the inlet manifold and exit via the nearside exhaust, warming the inlet system as they go. As the engine heats up the bimetallic strip opens the offside exhaust and both pipes come into play.
The flap valve should regularly be lubricated with graphite. The easiest way to do this is to use an aerosol of penetrating oil with graphite. A little tricky to find but I have found it on Ebay. |
Are you referring to the Edelbrock carburettor or to the original Carter carburettor fitted to the 410 which had the bimetallic strip in the inlet manifold which indeed operated the choke to enrich the mixture?
The choke on the Edelbrock is electrically operated and does not require the gases to circulate around the inlet manifold to trigger the bimetallic strip. I think these V8’s generate enough heat in a very short time to turn off the electric choke on the Edelbrock. Yes, prior to the Edelbrock installation the butterfly in the exhaust manifold would be closed and the choke on the carburettor would also be closed for ease of starting; as the gases pass through the inlet manifold they warm up the bimetallic strip and open the choke. Hopefully at the same time the heat control valve on the exhaust manifold opens fully. I appreciate that warming up a cold engine gently but quickly is more beneficial to the life of the engine but once the engine to up to temperature I wouldn’t want a sticky heat control valve in the exhaust manifold or additional carbon build up behind the plate inside the inlet manifold giving me unnecessary heat issues. My motto is to keep it simple. |
Neither. The bi-metallic strip wound round the end of the butterfly spindle in the valve that shuts off the exhaust.
The type of carburettor really isn't relevant. |
I think you are referring to the bi metallic spring that sits in the inlet manifold and operates the choke on the Carter. This is indeed redundant if you go for the Edelbrock with electric choke or indeed a manual choke as was my choice.
The exhaust butterfly has no connection to this. It is a relatively subtle improvement during warm up so if you are anxious it may stick you are probably better to wire it open or remove it. However I never had any issues when using the car regularly. As long as the spindle is kept lubricated the weight is plenty to keep the valve open. |
A little more thought and I think I see where you are coming from. Sorry if I'm a bit slow. Yes, the exhaust gas going through the inlet manifold would warm up the original auto choke faster but I believe its main purpose is to warm up the whole inlet tract and this will have a similar effect regardless of carburettor type.
|
Whilst in limbo, have not been idle. With a lot of stuff out of the way gave engine bay and block a good clean and it came up quite well. Renewed all the bushes on front anti roll bar as they were tired and had a critical look at all the other bushes at the front end - which appear to be new or very recent. Fitted new shocks all round - GAZ adjustables - springs were new last year before I took possession. This was all stuff I'd identified and planned to do over the coming months/years and had already accumulated the bits.
|
Am back on the road - or I was briefly - but more of that later.
As per below have now been through front suspension in its entirety and then turned attention to the engine. Decided to renew anything suspect so new cam, followers, pushrods, water pump, timing chain and sprockets, valves, collets and had the heads done. Inlet manifold looked decidedly mucky particularly under the metal plate on the underside so took the plate off and there was a big crack. Had an extremely generous offer of a loan of a manifold from a contributor on here to get me rolling again - thanks again - but in the end SLJ were able to supply a second hand one at a reasonable cost. After a weekend of cleaning it to within an inch of its life it's now painted and on the car. After "breaking in" cam, initial driving impressions are excellent - not a night and day improvement but engine even smoother and handling great - and that's before doing the geometry properly. Only fly in the ointment was a petrol pong which I presumed would be something not done up properly in the engine bay. Not so - I had a boot full of petrol (again), culprit being the SU fuel pump. Have had enough and am going the Facet route - even if it means building a little sound proofed home for it in the boot. It might be of use to some to know where I got the various bits and bobs from so here goes. Timing chain and sprocket, full gasket set for poly engine, valve springs, harmonic balancer all came from Real Steel in Uxbridge. Cam, lifters, valves and collets came from Falcon Global in the USA. Pushrods from https://egge.com/ Bushes and other suspension bits from Classic Bristol Car Parts and SLJ (who also provided water pump). Track rod ends - Amsteer. Thanks again to those on here who have been in touch with advice and offers of practical help - much appreciated. Andrew |
Andrew,
We put a facet pump in the boot of my 411 and used bonded rubber bobbin mounts to isolate the mounting plate I made from the boot bulkhead, when we fitted one on my 603 I followed the advice of the late Martin Barns and put the pump and a pressure regulator in the front drivers side wing bay where it works fine , I did not use a pressure regulator on the bigger engine and had no problems. Geoff. |
Thanks Geoff - effective isolation seems to be the key!
|
Quote:
I've been using Carter fuel pumps - I say plural because the first one died after very little use - maybe that was part of the problem. I gather they don't like infrequent use and they are cooled by the fuel itself. One good thing about the Carter pumps is that they are relatively quiet - you certainly can't hear my boot mounted pump when the engine is running. They also come with rubber isolating mounts. I have an Edelbrock carb on my 411 and use a fuel pressure regulator set at 5.5 psi. My pump is connected to the original fuel uptake pipe, but with hindsight I would look at mounting the pump underneath the car to guarantee an instant gravity feed of fuel. |
I should get back from Canada to my car by the end of the month. I have a long to do list and the extremely noisy Mallory pump fitted in my boot is high on there!
David 1964 408 Mk1 |
Fitted the pump this evening - went for a Facet Silver top. I used the same location in the boot but spent a bit of time making sure that it was unable to vibrate against anything and used the bobbins provided as part of the kit. On a brief test run it seems to work fine and to my ears is quieter than the SU - I cannot hear it at all when the engine is running.
Andrew |
Andrew,
would you mind posting a photo up your pump set up. Are you taking the petrol feed from the top of the tank? Thanks, Kevin |
Yes I'm using the pickup from the top of the tank. The flexible pipe had all been renewed last year (from tank to pump and pump to hard pipe going forward) in an effort to ward off E10 issues and because the old one was pretty ropey anyway which made the pump swap easy - otherwise I would have done that at the same time.
The Facet pump also comes with the ability to change the pressure by unscrewing the bottom and using a different spring (like the SU dashpot spring!). The carb on mine (a 500 cfm Edelbrock) wants a maximum of 6.5 psi and the pump as it comes is 6 - 7 psi so I changed the spring to a 4-5 psi one. Happy to post pictures - will have a read how to do it! Andrew |
Thanks Andrew,
I have actually created some new improved instructions on attaching images on forum posts, but I haven't got around to posting them yet! I will do so asap. Kevin |
Brief update - using car daily until recently - and getting more impressed with it day by day! Handling is lovely and all is quiet within apart from what used to be slight whirring from the rear that is now becoming more audible.
With this in mind I dropped it off at Hardy Engineering with all my new bushes and they will go through everything. Drive up there was swift and enjoyable and was pleased to be shown three other Bristol axles they'd just rebuilt - it appears the car is in good hands but time will tell! |
Well I picked car up yesterday and all is silent from the rear and leak free.
To celebrate, dashboard clock sprang into life and has been keeping good time ever since! Drive home was spirited and good fun - only downside was not keeping an eye on the petrol gauge and having to fill up on the motorway at £1.81 a litre! Not much left to do - bit of fiddling with adjustable shocks - ride is a bit too soft for my liking and sorting out the under dash fresh air vent lever...over to the left still gives a gentle breeze when it should shut it off. Didn't seem to matter much in warmer weather but it's more noticeable now. Hopefully it's something simple..... |
Excellent! Any other jobs planned or can you just enjoy it for a while?
|
Just like to put some miles on the car really and the aforementioned tinkering..rebuilt top end only has a few hundred miles on it so will let all that bed in and then probably a rolling road session just to fine tune the carb and the timing.
Touch wood ..... |
Amsteer
Has anyone done business with Amsteer lately? I am trying to get a quotation for a complete set of modified trackrods for my 411 since the end of march.
Send them four emails - nothing. Called them many times, mostly no one picks up the phone or I hear promises.. Does it make sense to continue to contact them again or .. Regards Thomas |
When I dealt with them it was great when you spoke to them but they were very busy and understaffed.
It may be easier just to get the track rod ends from them or someone else and have the threaded bar made up locally to you. The cost from them for making up the two small rods with a LH thread one end and a RH one the other (the big one is already like that so nothing to do) and supply new track rod ends for all of them was £180 inc postage and VAT - last year. From memory I didn't bother with a quote but just packaged them all up and sent them off with a covering letter. They then emailed me a quote which I accepted and it took three weeks for them to return the finished goods which work a treat. The only reason I sent all the rods as I was unsure of which track rod end I needed. My car was in dock at the time having other work done so time wasn't really an issue. |
Hi Thomas,
I have used Amsteer and found them to be an excellent company to deal with. When I dealt with them early in the Pandemic, they were exceptionally busy. Fortunately, I live only an hours drive from them so I was able to drop in and chat with them directly. You know from their website the cost of the track rod ends, the only addition is the link bars which will not be a great cost. Why bother with a quote? Just package your old ones up and send them off via a courier together with your order for the items in question. The reason I would send your old ones is to make sure the tapers are correct and the length of the bar is also correct with the right amount of thread at each end. My 410 was initially fitted with 4No. LH track rod ends, when I rebuilt the front suspension I converted them to the more conventional system of 2 LH and 2RH. I don’t know the setup on the 411 but it’s worth checking, in my opinion you don’t want to end up with a 4LH track rod end setup. Good luck with Amsteer Brian |
Senior moment at this end - had forgotten most important bit - the quality the product (TRE) is excellent so worth persevering IMHO.
|
Hi Brian and Andrew,
my two problems are: 1. I live in Germany and sending parts to Amsteer would involve Amsteer to clear the parcel through UK customs.. 2. I can not take off the track rods from the car, as the car would be immobile for several weeks. 3. Yes, I could order new track rod ends and then manufacture new rods, but it would be a hassle to obtain the correct lh threaded tap I think. Therefore I hoped that Amsteer could supply a complete new setup with lh/rh ends. I will try to phone and email them again… Regards Thomas |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 09:03 AM. |
This is the live site