Yes, I realise you are in Germany but I still think it’s necessary to provide Amsteer with accurate information for the replacement parts.
May I suggest:-
Taking off the track rod and ends from one side, check the dimensions of the tapers also the diameter of the track rod, although this is not critical but the length is. When I did my suspension I wasn’t able to remove one of the tre’s from the bar. It was well and truly anchored.
Amsteer fabricated new bars of a suitable length with extra thread at each end. If it had been necessary (which it wasn’t) I could have cut a little off each end to achieve the correct length, too long wouldn’t have been an issue but too small would have been.
For the sake of a few hours work you will at least have the confidence when the new ones arrive, they will fit.
You could also try faxing them on 01827 61999. Prefaced with the international code.
Regards
Brian

Did car run around New Forest yesterday (treasure hunt/tulip diagram type thing). Great test of cooling system as covered 80 miles in six hours driving!
It was a warm day (by UK standards) but no issues whatsoever.

Why do you want to modify the track rods? I presume you know that the track rod ends are identical to those used on the Austin Healy 3000 - you do need to know whether you need right or left hand threaded ends. They use a Whitworth thread.

Hi Roger,

I investgated this topic extensivly in the last days. Please excuse me if I sound smart alec but your statement has to be corrected, at least for my Bristol 411 S5.

1. The 2 track rod ends (TRE) from the inner tube are different from the one used on the outer rods. Their taper is bigger with a 1/2-20 UNF thread.

2. All 3 trackrods use a 5/8 UNF thread with matching lock nuts

3. The 4 TRE on the lh/rh side rods have a smaller taper with a 7/16-20 UNF thread.

Why do I want to modify the trackrods? Ease of adjustment. The original design is a pain to adjust properly and very time consuming. In an area were a half turn on the trackrod can make all the difference, I think it is importanted to have the best track alingnment possible.

Unless proven otherwise, I think that the common statement "TRE's from the Austin-Healey will fit" (Also found on the BODA homepage's technical section) is too simple. I can't tell if the A-H TRE's will fit, but if thats the case only either for the side rods or the center rod, not all three rods. The only TRE that could possibly be used are the one for the later 3000 MK2/3 BJ7/BJ8 model as the earlyer cars use a differend design of TRE.

Regards

Thomas

Great to hear and looking good in those photos!

David

Thomas

I feel I must defend my corner in that I know what I told you re A/H track rod ends is absolutely correct for the 408s, 409s and 410s. Given the proviso re the later A/H 3000’s.

Tracking was very straightforward on the earlier cars given the combination of LH and RH threads on the centre rod. Your comments re your difficulties indicate that something changed from earlier Bristol practise, perhaps they just ran out of L/H threaded T/E’s.

I note your comments re a difference between the inner two and outer four T/E’s. I also note that Amsteer list a different T/E for the 411. This might suggest that Bristols went for a bigger T/E on the inner rod on the later cars and continued to use the A/H T/E’s on the outers. Note that this means that the drop arms would also differ in this detail from those on the earlier cars

My memory continues to say very firmly that the track rods on the 408s to 410s carried Whitworth threads and the lock nuts also required a Whit spanner, but I have no way of actually double checking that so I could be mistaken. So forgive me if this is a red herring but it might just be worth your checking that the rod end of any track rod end does actually meet your requirements before you order.

Can I suggest that the best person to consult re your Series 5 might be Brian Marelli, the fount of all knowledge, who is I think now to be found at Coleman Classic Cars on +44 (0) 20 3987 3812

Hope that this is some help

Roger

I am getting a little confused, which isn’t difficult!
My 410 has three track rods, one on the left hand side, one on the right hand side and one central.

The left and right hand side track rods need adjusting independently, which is quite difficult and time consuming if all 4 TRE’s have a left hand thread. Each side needs to be aligned. To carry out the adjustments one end of the track rod is removed from say the hub and turned inwards or outwards on the rod as needed. Once both side are set to the correct line the central track rod is then adjusted to achieve the correct toe in or toe out. The central rod does not adjust the tracking. How much easier it is with 2LH and 2RH on the track rods.

So am I! I don’t understand what you are trying to adjust on the outer track rods, they only (I say only, but they are of course vital to the whole scheme of things) connect the steering arm on the hubs to the drop arms. They affect no element of the steering geometry. They don’t need adjusting, they just need doing up tight and leaving well alone until such time as a track rod end needs to be changed and that’s the only time they ever need to be touched. "Adjusting" them would affect toe in / toe out of course but would be extremely tedious and that’s not what they’re there for. Since they affect no element of steering geometry in themselves - leave them well alone.

One of the drop arms is connected to the steering box, the other to an idler box. The two drop arms are connected to each other by the central track rod which carries a left hand thread at one end and a right hand thread at the other. Toe in/out is readily adjusted by loosening off the lock nuts and rotating the central rod one way or the other.

Can I refer you to the relevant page of the 410 spares handbook on this forum Resources - Bristol Cars - Owners and Enthusiasts Forum which illustrates the various parts I’m referring to

If by "tracking" you mean you are seeking to get the steering wheel to match the actual straight ahead position of the wheels this is very readily achieved, after having set the toe in, by taking a careful note of the position of the s/wheel when the car is tracking straight (which is much easiest done on a short test run on the road) and then relocating the steering wheel appropriately on its splines. This is dead simple when you know how, let me know if any further advice is required.

Hope this is some help and that I don’t sound too bossy.



Roger

Hi Roger,

I totally agree to what you wrote, but I think you referring to an fully operational system which is nicely and properly adjusted.

In my case, I can’t leave my steering system “well alone” because out of 6 track rod ends 3 are worn out, one has been replaced by a previous owner with a non correct TRE, one track rod is damaged by severe mishandling and the left track rod is adjusted to be about 20mm shorter than the right track rod.

You can see from the above that, while renewing the complete system, it will help me to set up the track, to have conventional lh/rh threaded TRE’s.

Regards

Thomas

Hi Roger,

I think we may be talking at cross purposes here.

The outer track rods do affect the steering geometry. They can’t just be taken out of the box and fitted in the hope the central track rod will do all the necessary adjustments. Otherwise why have adjustable outer track rods.

I maintain that on a Bristol with 4No. LH threaded TRE’s the near side and off side wheels have to be aligned first, the outer track rods are then adjusted and fitted accordingly. Once aligned, fitted and secured, the central rod is adjusted to provide the tracking i.e toe in or out.

Tracking on cars do go out of alignment for many reasons, often one of the early signs as you know is excessive wear on the inner or outer edge of the front tyres. To correct the problem the wheel alignment must be checked before the central track rod is adjusted again.


Where a car has what in my mind is a more conventional system, where the two outer track rods have a LH and RH thread. The alignment and tracking (toe in or out) is done in the same procedure.
This system also negates the need for an adjustable central track rod. On many cars the central rod is a fixed length and not adjustable.

The steering wheel position has nothing to do with what I am saying above but when you have your car tracked the mechanic will position the steering wheel “straight” and clamp it in position while carrying the adjustments to the tracking.

Finally, I don’t think you are being too bossy, we just don’t agree and yes I would like some further advice please albeit on a different subject, I have set my question on a new thread for simplicity.

Brian

Not doing much on the car front as tied up with house building and moving. That said, a recent highlight was when Sam Frost popped down to pick up rear screen I was selling. He brought his 410 and we took the opportunity to drive each other's cars which was fascinating as well as good fun. It was a very hot day (by UK standards anyway) and the most immediate and wonderful difference with Sam's car is the fully functional, factory fitted aircon - that's now on my shopping list!
Picture below is a bit like one of those "spot the difference" puzzles....mine's the early one on the right, still sporting its upside-down moustache under the grille.

The Vintage Air "Builder Series" aftermarket aircon is on my shopping list for the 410. Does anyone have any first hand experience?

David while I can give you no specific advice on fitting Vintage Air to a 409 I have done a lengthy and difficult fit to my 411 Mk2.

Nearly every air conditioner fitted by the factory were what I call under dash units which fit between the gear box hump and the dash board. I did not want to do it that way but instead purchase a Vintage air unit with the intention of utilizing the 411 air vents on the dash. The only way to do this was to remove the existing heater and blower and cut a large hole in the flat area of the fire wall above the gear box hump.

I could go on for hours but the results were both good and bad. Sitting in the car you could see nothing other than 3 small knobs , There is no evidence of any change to the cabin, it all looks original and untouched. The heater built into the Vintage Air Unit works well. Under the bonnet the unit was boxed in and covered with the standard 411 material cover. All you can see is an air compressor and extra hoses.

The big problem is that having to remove the factory blower the Vintage Air unit wont move sufficient air to get a good flow of cold air through the 4 vents on the dash. This results in a car that, on a hot day, wont get sufficient cold air flow. I have tried a number of modifications to improve the problem but are thinking about reverting to the under dash system.

In a 409 I suspect you wont have room under the dash to fit it and you will still need some vent system. I would be looking for the smallest compact unit and fit it under the dash above the gear box hump then all you need is a couple of hoses running back to the engine.

Best of luck

Bit the bullet and finally took the car to Alder Automotive to get my gearbox looked at.
After an extensive test drive the proprietor informed me that in his opinion I'd misdiagnosed the issue - which was a slight grumbling when pulling away under load - and that attention to the inside of said gearbox was fruitless. He put it down to resonance and is checking mounts etc. This was a relief as you can imagine. I also asked him to sort out the gear selector and gear lever which has always been floppy and had inaccurate selection. Many have attempted to improve this over the years with limited success so a new one of each - that match the original - are winging there way to him from across the pond.
He did a gearbox service and adjusted the bands so now I'm just waiting for the bits to arrive and for him to fit them.
More later.

Bit of an update - correct gear selector mechanism and gear knob etc fitted - took months as parts supplier in USA kept sending wrong bits. Finally got car back in July and much better. After a week kickdown disappeared but once I understood how it worked, it was easily adjusted and now used at every opportunity.
Had a week away in it and lots of long runs - up to Essex to do Layer Marney Cup and then over to West Wales for a couple of nights with friends.
Car ran really well and found some great driving roads - the picture is the car on the Black Mountain Pass.
Car is being used for eldest daughters wedding in ten days time so have given the car a proper clean and sent hubcaps off for chroming as they were letting the whole thing down a bit.
All this talk of fuel injection is tempting but for now am just enjoying the car.

Andrew, when you talk about using kickdown are you referring to full-throttle or part-throttle? If part-throttle (eg 3 down to 2 when accelerating out of a roundabout) how did you achieve that? My 411/3 lacks that, and I have to do it manually. Not exactly stressful, but a minor annoyance!

Prior to the early 1970s Torqueflites didn't have part throttle kickdown but there are upgrades available such as:

727 3-2 Kick Down Module (1966-69) - A&A Transmissions

More useful info here

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads.../199003/1.html

It looks as though the module listed in the previous post enables part throttle kickdown but this can happen at higher speeds than on later setups. The full upgrade would require a later valve body. I believe this can be done with the transmission still in the car.

Andrew's 46RH transmission is probably circa 1992 to 1995 so will have several years of development on a standard 411 unit.

Aaah...... light dawns, Andrew has a 4-speed....hadn't realised. I bought a part throttle kickdown module for my TF727 a while ago. It goes under the front of the valvebody and replaces another part. But I haven't summoned up the courage to take the valvebody off yet! I dropped the pan and changed the fluid earlier this year, not technically difficult although holding the spacer under the filter at the same time as getting the new filter in the right place so the bolts go in needs 2 and a half hands, which due to some design fault of mother nature I don't posess (yet...). I was going to do the kd module at the same time but chickened out, in case small unidentifiable bits boinged off into oblivion....
Thanks for the links.

When you finally summon the courage to fit the kit you may want to consider fitting some updated Sonnax valves at the same time. The important one allows the torque converter to fill in park and avoids the clunk on take off.

I would advise against a shift improver kit. Martin Barnes talked me into one many moons ago and although it gives a more positive change it's a bit more boy racer and less Bentley. Personal preference but I prefer refined understatement until the pedal squashes the carpet.

Agree completely with David C about shift quality. I had a shift kit in the TH350 in my old V8 Ford Popular hot rod years ago. It was a solid shift at any rpm - great when drag racing but it deffo wouldn't suit a Bristol. If I do actually end up putting a GM 200-4R in my 411 I'll need an uprated one (to take the torque) but want it with a stock feeling shift - all the trans companies I've looked at build them for hot rodders & bracket racers, so they advertise much firmer shifts.

My 411/3 sold some years ago did not have any half throttle kickdown response but when I decided to fit an Edelbrock Performer Carb and Manual choke set to the car and adjust all the linkages as the installation instructions suggested all was well and I had full and part throttle kickdown no expensive mods and I remember reading years ago that Bristol had set up the linkages on their cars of this period to exclude the half or part throttle kick down both of which operate on my 603.
This video which I have just come across may offer some insight into the issue or not as I got distracted when viewing it but but decided to post the link anyway as we may all learn something.
Geoff.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/th...-down-linkage/

The article highlights the problem I had on mine when it came back from having the selector fitted.
My gearbox is wider than original and Martin Barnes got round this (when he did the conversion nearly 23 years ago) by engineering in a bit of flop (not slop!) into the rods and linkages and extended a few others. The garage tightened everything up before they gave me the car back and removed the flop hence no kickdown. It took me about two hours of looking and thinking but once I'd understood what he'd done and why it was a five minute job to put a bit more slack into the system.
I did seriously consider the Lokar solution - you apparently do need to use their gas/accelerator pedal as well - or so I've read - but then local mechanic pointed out that what I've got works perfectly well so why not stick with that - at least until current setup fails - so I am!

Here is a picture to illustrate the difference Andrew refers to. The gearbox tunnel was originally pretty much symmetrical. The hole for the linkage at the top of the red area has had to move outward about 2 inches to get a clean vertical drop down the side of the transmission.
Modification to the tunnel and re-engineering the linkages is about the most time consuming part of upgrade to overdrive.

Many thanks to Geoff for the helpful link on how to adjust the kickdown.

With any luck the picture is attached this time...http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/a...1&d=1697129123

Happy Christmas to all readers! The preparation of car for daughters wedding took on a rather manic aspect and I got quite obsessive including getting hubcaps rechromed but it did look stunning and 25 year old daughter did the driving duties without mishap. After various people "having a go" at driving it in the days following the wedding the new shifter became somewhat difficult to get out of Park. In an effort to remedy it myself I managed to break it. A new shifter mechanism turned up very quickly from https://dantesparts.com/ and all is well again.
Fuel smell from the rear is cured - renewed all breather hoses etc, but the problem was a through bulkhead fitting that was leaking slightly.
Also took the opportunity to get the side trim redone...it was held on by a mixture of double sided tape, and clips and over the years it was pulling away in places...mainly where it had been caught by cleaning cloths and so on. I got the local bodyshop to redo it using the correct clips... I gather it was a bit of a performance but it looks excellent.
Have got New Years Day run planned and after that it's going in to get the only remaining bushes on the car that haven't been renewed done. They're the ones on what I'd call the sort of anti tramp bar at the rear.
Hopefully do some serious touring in 2024.
Cheers
Andrew

Looks great, very smart!

Took the opportunity to have remaining niggles dealt with!
When anti tramp bar removed to do bushes, we noticed the mountings on the diff cover weren't great so they've been remade and all is much better at the rear. Also dealt with annoying slight resonance when moving away which turned out to be the gearbox mounting - replacement was a Chrysler Valiant one!
Traced annoying fuel smell at front to incorrectly seated air cleaner and that's now sorted and took the time to double check chassis etc to ensure no incipient corrosion anywhere.
Not content with that, reset the tappets which hadn't been done since heads done a year or so ago and as we were on a roll decided to see what was going on inside the rear suspension units!
Bearings not great on one side and and even less great on the other so they were replaced. After reading extensively on here and SLJ's technical notes and suggestions decided to fill with semi liquid grease and added a grease nipple and a vent so one can fill them without pressure build up.
Needless to say car drives and rides incredibly well now and am looking forward to the serious touring mentioned below!

Car just back from France - first time it's been abroad for a long while. Behaved itself impeccably and overall achieved 28.1 MPG which I was delighted with - helped no doubt by Autoroutes and RN's - very little stop start/city driving.
Off to Germany in a few weeks to do Romantic Road and Black Forest.

That's great to hear! Really good fuel consumption. I don't imagine you did the whole trip at 56MPH either.

That's true but wasn't particularly caning it either and was conscious of seeing how well I could do on MPG front!

Brief update - did good tour in June of Belgium, Germany (Rhine Valley/Castle Route/Black Forest), Austria, Switzerland and then back through France.
The B 500 - Black Forest Route was fun and suited the car well - decent straights and some twisty bits.
Then did a whistle stop tour of NW England and Lakes in early September which was enjoyable and finally the Sprint up at Southport which BODA were supporting towards the end of that month.
It's been pleasing to do use the car more this year for the purpose it was acquired for - fast touring, in comfort.
Picture courtesy of Actuarius Art btw