Bristol 411 bodywork
 

Hi All,

I am currently trying to restore the exterior of my father’s Bristol 411. It is either a series 1 or 2 as it has 2 large and 2 smaller headlamps. I am a novice when it comes to body work, but the aim is try to do as much of the work ourselves.

I have stripped most of the paint down to the primer using Nitromors paint remover and A LOT of patience!

I am unsure of how to remove the front headlamps so as to get a proper finish to the paint stripping, and future painting. Any tips?

There is a small dent in the roof (just above where the rear-view mirror attaches). What sort of filler should I use on this? Any tips for doing this?

The car is made from aluminium so is there a special kind of primer we should use? And also special type of paint for the top coat?

Any advice, hints, tips or pointers would be very much appreciated.

Mike

Pull the chrome rims off the light and remove the lights and bowls from the body.

If you are using a professional painter --- highly recommend. Let him worry about the acid etch primer and non porous filler. Just concentrate on getting all the lights and trim off - and old paint.

If you are keeping it the same colour and thee paint is sound you maybe just need to etch the surface.-- get advise from whoever is painting it.

Bristol Cars have the screen rubbers you will need. Get a glass specialist to remove and replace the glass.

Shop around for painters and look at their other work.

Good luck

You will propably find that the light bowls are really rusty.
You can get new ones easily.
The same applies for the chromed surrounds.

Personally, i would not tackle the actual paintjob myself, I think you are a very brave man!

Do not forget, that those large, flat areas need to be expertly painted.

Restoring 411
 

Hi Mike,

Where are you located (what country) and what experience do you have in classic car restoration? If novice means very little, you really should consider finding an old, cheap aluminium bodied Land Rover and practice on it. The 411 is considered by many to be the best of the V8 classic Bristols, and the company's owner, Toby Silverton is buying 411's to turn them into 411-mark 6 rebuilt models. It really is not the best car to learn restoration on.

On dents, aluminium is better beaten out with a skilled hand than filled with bog. On painting, aluminium requires far more skill to get right. It requires an etch primer, but it also requires perfect temperature, humidity and dust controlled conditions or a few years down the road you will regret wasting the time. As others have noted, the headlamp buckets are screwed in, but it probably is all is rusted out. If so buy new buckets first and when you have them, use a grinder to destroy the rusted buckets without damaging the aluminium to which they are affixed. Also, you may have corrosion where electrolysis is the result of the aluminium body touching the steel wheel wells, and even if not, you should make sure you detail that part right by preventing the two metals from touching, or in a few years it will bubble again and mess up the paint. If you do have corrosion, which you may find behind the headlights as well, this should be repaired by a skilled aluminium welder, not bog. It's worth it to spend the money.

If I can give you advice, keep on with the messy, but essentially low-skill work of preparation. Remove all the paint and bad bog, replace all the rusted screws, take off everything that gets in the way of a painter (but have a professional remove and reinstall the glass - it's easy to break and expensive to replace). Then pay a recommended professional who knows aluminium to prepare the body, prime it, probably spend three weeks with long block sanding and top coating. It's not a prime-top coat finish, but instead will be etch coat, several prime coats, several top coats and optionally a clear coat on top of all.

Alternatively, have a professional skim and etch coat it to assure the paint will bond to the metal, then you prime it and then go to a World-War II Bristol aeroplane museum, note the military matt-colours and spray it in some tint of flat or matt green and grey with appropriate military decals. Going this route, all of the imperfections that will show up are part of the image, and when someone does invest the funds required to do the proper top coating, the protective paint will serve as a good scratch coat (used in sanding to find the high and low spots).

Claude

PS: See http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum...8e711574c8331c

Gregg, Janne, Claude - thanks for your honest and extensive advice. We will have to discuss how best to go forwards with the respray. For now we will continue to prepare the car, ensuring everything is stripped and ready.

Please be very gentle with the front widscreen. A replacement is very costly.

I forgot to ask: Are you planning to restore the whole car, ie engine, driveline, interior, everything?

I forgot to tell you: If the doors sag a little bit, replace the hinges before any preparation and paintwork. Those newly painted edges chip easily!

Hi, the engine is pretty sound mechanically (we hope). The MOT is due late February so we shall find out then! The interior is in very good condition.

I have a few claifying questions. To remove the front lamps you say to pop off the silver housing, is this just done by levering off with a screw driver or similar? I do not want to damage the lamps as they are in fairly good condition. There is a screw I can see on the underside of the lamp housing but it is not easily accessible.

Also, the silver trim that runs the length of the car, is this glued on? I do not want to damage anything when trying to remove these.

Also the front grill, this will need to be removed for complete stripping and painting, any tips or advice for this?

I think we shall need to replace the rubber seal for the front and back windscreens, for this I think we'll have to go to a professional.

Mike

Claude - the link to that thread is great! many thanks.

oCoop - Halogen Headlights - Classic Mini Cooper Enthusiasts

removal of Mini headlamp - same.

cranked screw driver items - Get great deals on Home Garden items on eBay UK!

Side trim is bolted on. Your painter may not need the grill removing.

Bristol Ltd have the corect rubber for the windscreens.

I do not want to be nasty, but it sounds from your posts like you have a very limited experience with car restoration.

I am not sure you should do a Bristol as a first car.

Any possibility to post some pics of the car?

We all have to start somewhere?
 

Well, I am not sure that I should agree with this. Sure, the value of these cars is considerably higher than when I purchased one at the end of the 1970s as my first classic/rolling restoration.

It is, however, a constant learning experience and we all have to start somewhere and I started on my 408 (Mk. I) dealing with de-corrosion under the failed underseal (but not very much of the necessary welding), softening the leather, then replumbing the braking system and overhauling the calipers, sorting out the cooling, dealing with the exhaust system, various bits and pieces to the engine, trim, electrics and a host of other things that greatly improved my knowledge.

I went on from this to do far more to an Alvis TC21/100 (a lot of work there), another 408 (Mk. II), R-type Bentley, P4 Rovers, Singer Chamois, and three old Volvos, but so much of the basics was learnt on the Bristol.

Geo.

I agree that a Bristol is no more complicated than most other classics, but you do need a pro to get the paint right.

You don't need to be an expert to strip it and send bits off for chrome and wheels for powder coating.

I understand the OP is trying to restore his fathers Bristol. Personally, I would try to get a 100% perfect result. The dent in the front of the roof should be taken out from the inside. When the front windscreen is removed, this is a fairly easy thing to do. I would remove all fillers, and rectify the problems properly.
Yes, it is time consuming and takes some skill (the suggestion to practice on a Defender is superb!) but it will be worth it.

Before any paintwork, I would first start to investigate if there are any corrosion in the frame suporting the panels, any corrosion in the steel panels in the wheel arches and if at any area the aluminium is getting thin (due to corrosion).

When I restore a vehicle (I have a AR Junior, Saab 92, prewar MB 230S, prewar BMW 328, 2 LR Defenders, the Bristol and about 7 motorcycles behind me)
I first make a plan. The first decision is, shall I do just an aesthetic restoration, (OK on a lower value vehicle) or a thorough one?

If done properly, the restoration of OP's father car will not only increase the value, but will also last.

As the saying goes, we learn from our misstakes. I did learn a lot from my (many) misstakes!

Hi All,

Greg – excellent link to the mini headlamps page, thanks!

Janne – you’re accurate in your understanding, I am a novice! And I therefore appreciate all the helpful advice you have provided! I will be down at my parents house next weekend so will hopefully upload some photos and you can see the current condition.

My father’s original intention was to strip the paint to the bare aluminium and then treat with a protective coating (no paint respray), but as we strip the paint off it looks like this will not be possible (too many small scratches etc.) A professional paint job might well be the way forwards, but for now we will continue to do as much as we can ourselves.

One more question, as the car is not garaged, but under a gazebo-type marquee (no sides), could anyone recommend a reputable external car cover manufacturer?

Hopefully get some photos uploaded end of next week.

Protech Shelters UK: Car / Van Garage / Boat Cover -PS-788-200, Car Cover and Storage >> click for product listings, PS-788-200

or cheap rubbish

6m x 3m GAZEBO EZ Pop Up Instant Marquee Canopy Tent B on eBay (end time 06-Feb-11 09:00:56 GMT)

I bought the latter and the snow destroyed it :-(

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....8/10/slr-3.jpg

If you like the idea of polished aluminium, maybe you could be the first to have a vinyl wrap on a Bristol ! you can get chrome !!

Or this one

http://gallery.seloc.org/albums/user...DSCN3854LR.jpg

Maybe for Cass !

Oop's wrong link

I mean't this one - quite like matt black

Google Image Result for http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hhHDEMy9geY/0.jpg

The Protech shelter looks rally good, and at a very good price!

Untill my Garage is finished (June) I need to protect the paint on my car (quite sunny here), so I orderd an Auto Storm Classic cover, to arrive at the same time as the car.

Yes please, lots of pics!

Another thing I did on my headlamps was that I bought bowls made from black plastic. Will not rust.

The front grill is quite easy to dismantle. I took it to pieces, replaced the tube spacers with new ones I made, and painted the pieces individually.

One thing I learned is that in the area where the sheet aluminium attaches to the inner wings (just under the edge of the bonnet) a very common fault is that people fill the join between the wing panel and inner-wing panel. (I hope this makes sense?) so it is smooth. You should be able to see the overlap.

I don't know about the trim on the 411 S1/2 but on my 411 S5 the rubber section of the trim is falling off, possibly due to the heat over the last month. As you can see from attached photo.

Looking at the rusty screws underneath I am glad it did fall off, but how does the rubber stay in place? I can only assume it is glued in place!

Anyone know for sure?

Kevin

Alas, it only claims to be good to galeforce 8, so would go the way of the cheap rubbish as it is g'force 10 - 11 (storm to violent storm) this evening!

Geo.

I used EvoStic to glue the rubber strips

Hi All,

My apologies for not getting these photos up sooner, haven't been to my parent's in a while and have been out of the country for a bit.

I have uploaded a few photos so you can see the current state of the car. Any comments are welcome!

Mike

More photos attached

More photos here

Take all the bright work off and number plates.

Get a few painters around to quote with pictures of their previous jobs

Order screen and window rubbers from Bristol or ACCS -- ACCS have a good deal on screens at the moment if needed. Drop them off at the painters.

Send any chrome away that needs doing -- it may be cheaper to get new hub caps ! depending on who you use.

Remove and restore any of the interior that need doing while the car is at the painters -- Woolies have a good colour kit for the leather if needed and carpet dye from ebay will freshen the carpet up. Check for rot on the bottom of the door cards wood -- all the wood :-) and renew /repair.
If the headlining is discoloured , Woolies sell a aerosol spray colour that works well -- and ebay of course.

The veneered wood capping's and dash are tricky to get right, so if they are bad you may want to send them away. I have a good contact up North if you need them.

Put it all back together and service the car, under seal and treat any rust underneath. Careful putting the bumpers back on so that you don't scratch the new paint.

Get your dad to put the car in your name.


Book a ferry ticket and enjoy the drive to the south of France - via Luxembourg to fill up with cheap fuel :-)

Sell your now stunning car to a rich oil Sheikh in Monaco for £200k and fly back to London. Get a taxi to Bristol Cars, Kensington High Street and buy a 411 S6 and with the change buy a 405 project from Andrew Blow.


Simples - Enjoy

Did you strip it with all the trim on ?

Nice leather !

Iam surprised how good the interior looks like.
And I admire you for the incredible work you have done so far.
In addition, I would like to mention, that you should check all areas of the body for thin aluminium, pinholes etc.
To check for thin aluminium, just gently press with a finger and see if the metal skin flexes. Pinholes - visual check.

Also, before you put on a fabulous new coat, check the underside for rust. It is better to have a competent company to repair the underside before any painjob.

Also, personally, I would not leave the Aluminium exposed too long.

And, before I forget, remove that rubber noisekilling strip before the paintjob.

Are the doors hagning straight and true? Hinges might need replacing if the pins are worn. Bristol have them.

The Window frames, seals and other bits will need to be replaced.

What colour did you have in mind?

Ah yes, one more tip:

If you clean all the lights with lukewarm water, dish washing liquid and a tooth brush (take apart first), then polish the outside surfaces, they will look like new, they will sparkle!
Lot of work (but nothing compared what you have done so far) but you will not regret it!

BTW, how is the engine? Sort out the resto of the engine before you paint the engine room.

Thanks for the pictures Mike. The interior looks quite good.

If you do decide to renovate the leather here is a link to some discussion on using the Woolies leather restoration kit.

If you work on any of the timber, be VERY careful when sanding off the old varnish because the veneer is quite thin and it's easy to sand through it!

Take a look at this leather restoration system as well -- great video instructions

Leather Dyes & Restoration

Cannot agree more!

I used a Marine grade varnish, "International" brand.
Several layers, a light buff between the layers. Dustfree environment, like a bathroom.
(the wifes love it!)

This is the highest gloss toughest finish and can be done in one coat !

SP320 Solvent Free Clear Epoxy Resin System - mbfg.co.uk

I used Marine varnish as well (some Aussie brand), although I found it very hard to keep dust out, but I didn't do it in the bathroom!

I also tried polishing one section (glove box door) afterwards which didn't work out very well at all (not recommended!)

Perhaps an epoxy finish could be polished.

So why do they say;

"When used for coating wood, just a few coats will provide both protection and a depth of clarity that can only otherwise be achieved with many more coats of a conventional varnish." :)

Nevertheless, it sounds like good stuff!

What is the point of using a solvent free product?
No buzz - no joy!!

No need to polish the last layer. I used the marine varnish undiluted for maybe 4 layers, with a flattening with Wet and Dry paper after each coat. This way I achieved a perfectly flat surface, masking all undulations and irregularities in the wood panels.
For the last layer I diluted the laquer to thin it, and sieved it through a fine cloth to get rid of the little lumps.

It does not matter hich product you use, you need several layers. The thicker layer - the better "depth".

I forgot: If the veneer is cracked, it is usually better to give the job to a pro.
No need to go to a person that does cars, I would go to a person that does furniture restorations.
The same if I wanted to re-veneer the dashboard or the other bits.

In 1992 I veneered the dashboard and gearshift fascia on my 1991 AR Spider S4. I hated the crappy black plastic.
I used a veneer from the root section of Mahogany (proper Rainforest stuff in those days).
Lokked perfect untill I sold the car in 2004.
Marine varnish can take some water.

I didn't do that. Perhaps that's where I went wrong, although you have to look at it quite closely to see that the finish is not perfect.

I think the reason I chose the (Wattyl) marine varnish was because it claimed to offer some UV protection.

When it's applied on a flat surface, it can be applied thicker and one coat. It can be polished and it is the toughest product out there. I think it's the finish that is on modern car veneers ?

I think you are right, Greg, it is surely a similar product that is applied on modern cars interiors.