An Illustrated History (the new one!)

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Geoff Dowdle

There are so few Bristol Books ever printed we should be happy with what there is or produce our own.

Geoff

Gentlemen (are there any ladies in this forum?)

Geoff's idea is no longer outlandish. Producing a book used to be a major endeavour costing tens of thousands of dollars, resulting in guesswork to avoid a garage full of unsold books, and in the end the risk that on page 37 and 184, you got it hopelessly wrong, but it is unthinkable to issue a reprint.

Now with print-on-demand, Adobe InDesign & Acrobat, and digital cameras, one can write a credible book, publish it for free (yes, you upload for free, and the buyer orders one copy at a time that is printed and shipped for about 2 cents a page B&W or 15 cents a page if colour photos are used). We have published a conventional 256 page full colour book (with over 400 photographs) the old fashioned way - cost us five figures. But for the overseas US and UK market, we used POD, where a zero-profit book costs the customer under $50.

When the reader finds an error on page 37, change it, upload the PDF and the record is set straight. All books ordered thereafter will be right.

I propose that we consider doing such a project. What it will take is a coordinator (not me) to set out the table of contents and then recruit volunteers with knowledge to write each chapter.

I envision an enthusiasts book, containing as much knowledge as possible. How to restore, what parts bin items will fit, all that knowledge that exists in the minds of owners and specialists who otherwise will take it to the grave.

Who is semi-retired, has the interest and the time? I can provide advise on how to do it, as among other things I run a publishing company.

Cheers
Claude

[devadmin]

Wow, I knew self publishing had become a lot easier but I didn't realise 'print on demand' books were now a commercial reality. The main hurdles I see are (a) managing the project, and (b) agreeing on the "facts". Nevertheless, I firmly believe that such a publication would be a a good thing for the marque.

Unlike the past when the mystique of the Bristol was cleverly used as a marketing angle, a lack of available information could now be a hindrance, particularly where resale values are concerned, because people get scared off when they have no idea of restorations costs.

Where the V8 cars are concerned (when much of the secrecy began) there have been numerous "buying guide" articles in popular car magazines over the years that have talked about the enormous complexity of the car's suspension and the vast sums of money required to restore the suspension if it is worn out. This is of course complete nonsense. They are no more expensive to fix than any other classic, and probably cheaper than many, furthermore the parts are still available.

Putting technical and 'how to' information in the public domain will also hopefully prevent a few bodge jobs.

Kevin
(I must try to remember to use my own username when posting!)

[RGSchmitt]

All -

Great idea! I'd add that the Internet - through web pages or a wiki
(not public) would make collaboration very efficient, assuming all
contributors were suitably connected.

I think some legal framework may also be necessary, to credit authors
and protect original work.

It's likely I can contribute my time to a project like this, only
restricted by relocation plans, some consulting work and a lack of
Bristol knowledge.

Bob (only one known Bristol, not mine, within 100 miles)

[geo]

Looking at the postings of Claude, Geoff et al I do have to wonder
how practicable a proposition this would be and have a couple of
thoughts that may or may not be particular to me.

I enjoy the look and feel of a well-produced book and have to admit
that I hate the few print-on-demand types I have - I prefer to leave
them as pdf files and read them on screen. 'Vanity publishing'
appeals to quite a few people, but as someone who has had to read a
number of these volumes, I can attest to the poor quality of most
aspects of the resultant product (knowledge of the subject matter is
the principal reason someone has taken the trouble to produce a book
in the first place and this is frequently the sole area that works
reasonably well).

Think of one of the Bristol books mentioned in one of the other
postings: it is highly informative on most aspects of the Bristol and
conveys a pleasing feel for the marque, but it also contains the same
facts being presented in multiple locations, incorrect captions to
some photographs, duplication of text and so on - and this is from a
respected publisher and has been professionally edited and proof-read.

From a more practical standpoint, who would negotiate and pay the
copyright clearances, decide upon the house style (and technical
style), do the design and layout, deal with the artwork and
photographs (including touch-ups) etc. Writing and publishing a book
involves far more than knocking out the text and then distributing it
- there are many aspects that are unlikely to create a quality effect
without the necessary professional skill and experience. Sure, we can
all write a book and, I daresay, we could all respray and reupholster
our cars . . .

If one went down the multi-author route, then who would be the main
editor and how would contributors feel about having their text hacked
to death? Would this editor be expected to cross-check all the
references and warn readers of those that seemed dubious?

I recall researching material for a book and having the benefit of
documentation from the Rootes family who co-operated; access to quite
a lot of government and private funding archives; and interviewing
many senior and not-so-senior employees including the car designers.
As one usually finds, all these authentic sources told very different
tales and tales that contained much contradiction. Someone has to
resolve these conflicts and it takes truly ages.

One also turns into a sleuth, I recall coming across an incorrect
usage of a German term, then finding it in another source -
eventually, I traced the same 'factual' material through about ten
sources, all of which had appropriated, incorrect as it turned out,
information from either the original source or from each other. Great
for perpetuating myths, but lousy if one wants to get it right.

Just a few spanners for the works?

George

[ozy]

It always amazes me that when topics of this type are floated on many fora, there is always an abundance of armchair experts ready to postulate reasons why 'it can't be done' or 'it would be too difficult'. Will anyone shout up with a can do attitude here I wonder?

I would love to see an erudite, up to date book on the Bristol marque - hopefully not one with creaky didatic prose replete with inaccuracies nor a hopelessly overpriced 'coffee table' offering. Far better a print on demand web based offering than nothing at all! Any budding LJKS types ready to take up the gauntlet?

Ozymandias

[RGSchmitt]

Hi all -

I think the book is a great idea and also appreciate the detailed
list of obstacles - a great checklist to get the project
rolling! Sign me up - I edited my high school newspaper!

Bob

[Peter Grace]

My two pennies' worth.

The two largest 'internal costs' are going to be the editor's time and the
typesetting (an ancient term.)

Like a village cookbook, everyone can contribute a section and therefore the
'writing' part can be divy'd up easily.

I am happy to contribute to the design of it, (as this is my area of
specialty) - subject to an agreed brief and approvals process (we do not
want this run by committee, let alone a forum committee.)

But I can see endless changing and arguing over of millions of facts,
grammar, and most frightening of all, opinion.

Kevin is our resident expert on the pitfalls of personal opinion, as the
founder of BEEF.

And yet, what would be the point of a Bristol book that did not offer a
point of view?

In my opinion, we should (and I don't mean to burden this on Kevin)
investigate writing and editing it online, like Wikipedia, with a similar
approvals process. And once 'finished' then look to publish it the old
fashioned way.

P

[Peter Grace]

Some further thoughts.

1.) What is the aim of this book? Another scrapbook (like the Brooklands
book?), a comprehensive manual for restoration (updateable?), a collection
of essays?, a definitive bible on the marque?
2.) Is the book purely instructional/informational or is it entertaining as
well? If the latter, what provision for high quality photos or
illustrations, or even diagrams?
3.) Is there a legal entity that owns the IP of this book? What happens in
the event of profits or losses? If someone sues, who do they sue?
4.) Can we ask Mr Crook to contribute?

For some reason, probably because it suits me to remember this, it reminds
me of one of my favourite books 'The Cambridge Medieval History'. This eight
volume series took about thirty years to complete, was perhaps the first
truly international effort in compiling books of this kind, was held up by
(I think) both World Wars, and in the making saw a revolution in 'Applied
History' that made the earlier 'narrative' volumes seem out of date by the
time the later volumes were being written and sent to the publisher.

I think unless we define very closely what we are trying to achieve through
this book, the course could very easily be dictated to by the contributions
offered, and you would find we had an eight or ten volume bible on our
hands, something that could never be printed, never be kept up to date, and
like my beloved Cambridge Histories, become treasured purely as a magnum
opus, rather than for the information contained within it.

Of course, that is merely an argument for keeping the whole thing online.

Where is George Mowat Brown? Doesn't he know a thing or two about this?

P

[TLF799R]

Hi All (By the way Claude, yes there are ladies on the forum, amazing though it may seem!),

Without meaning to sound all doom and gloom, having gone through the process of writing (a truly fabulous, LOL) book, then the painful process of having it professionally edited I have to agree with George. Do not underestimate the difficulty of making such a book flow.

My editor moved sections round, put ruthless red lines through (very interesting) bits of waffle and generally savaged my beloved manuscript. The end result though is a really tightly written book which (dare I say it)got excellent reviews. Without her it wouldn't have been the professional product it became.

If you use multiple authors you are in great danger of publishing a bundle of articles all expressing different opinions which, although all valid, are of no real help to anyone.

Already you can see the different views on what such a book should be - from workshop manual to a history through the eyes of Tony Crook.

It seems to me that we have loads of latent talent here dying to write Bristol material so why on earth is the BOC bulletin editor stuggling to get contributions? We've already got an excellent outlet in a quality format for these articles let's get some of these ideas on paper and published in the bulletin at no cost to anyone!

Or have I missed some unspoken barrier here...?

Philippa

[Claude]

Originally Posted by TLF799R

It seems to me that we have loads of latent talent here dying to write Bristol material so why on earth is the BOC bulletin editor stuggling to get contributions? We've already got an excellent outlet in a quality format for these articles let's get some of these ideas on paper and published in the bulletin at no cost to anyone!

Or have I missed some unspoken barrier here...?

Philippa

Hello Phillippa,

I would not see an unspoken barrier but a different purpose, a different process, and a different membership. The BOC is a British Club that welcomes overseas members, but eventually they grow tired of renewing a membership and drift away. However, Kevin's forum keeps them involved, it is entertaining, is international because the internet conquors the tyranny of distance, and it lacks the politics that clubs inherently take on.

If the BOC forum wishes to publish the on-going work, wonderful. But if the BOC becomes the official body, then we have risk, risk assessment, politics and a host of distractions from something singular in its goal. Better to set up something independent, but keep it open-source, meaning the Club may print whatever they want from the book process.

Cheers
Claude

[Kevin H]

Claude,

That's a great framework to get things going.

Should we spread the word a bit more widely, because I am sure that there are plenty of other Bristol owners (other than the 68 members who have joined BristolCars.info to date) who may be able and willing to contribute, but do not yet know about the existence of this site and therefore are oblivious to this discussion.

Regards,
Kevin

[Nick Challacombe]

I thought that was precisely what you did not what!

"A creaky didatic prose complete with inaccuracies"

At least he was passionate about Bristol Cars.

Peg Leg

[Kevin Howard]

Originally Posted by Nick Challacombe

I thought that was precisely what you did not what!

"A creaky didatic prose complete with inaccuracies"

At least he was passionate about Bristol Cars.

Peg Leg

It will have the elements that interest me - the Buyers Guide, "how to service and fix" and "where to get". I'll just ignore the potentially non factual stuff

However, Claude may be right, newcomers to the marque may need a bit of that to get them hooked. After all it was only after reading A Private Car that I had the urge to buy a Bristol.

Kevin