Brabazon
 

Dear All,

I had the pleasure of visiting the Bristol Kensington showroom in November 2003 having a long conversation with Mr. Tony Crook who introduced me to the philosophy behind Bristol Cars, further enhancing my passion and knowledge of the brand.

In my recently launched activity of freelance car stylist, I worked out a proposal for a reshape of the Bristol Blenheim bodywork, which I called the Brabazon, in order to align the main Bristol product line to the new styling direction inaugurated by the Fighter supercar.

This project does not have affiliation with Bristol Cars Ltd, although this would be welcome!

Please visit my website www.bertolio.it and let me know your opinions.

Best Regards

Giacomo Bertolio

Brabazon
 

Boy-O-Boy is this an ugly design. Putting this model into production would
certainly resolve the current 18 months waiting time for a new Bristol
Blenheim!


Regards

Richard Levine

Apologies to Giacomo - but...
 

My oh my! And you all think my beloved 412 is ugly!!!

Philippa

Hi
Too much bulk, it reminds me of the ugly jobs those 2 german companies have done trying to update RR and Bentley.

Brabazon
 

If one looks at the evolution of Bristol style, one notes that it began by
imitating the BMW. Then with the 401-403, it took on a most elegant design,
with curved form resembling a snow drift after a hard-wind blizzard. The
404-405 emerged more matcho, taking on an aero snout, form-follow-function
that slowly grew more refined up to the 411 after the unfortunate low point
of the 408. Then shall we say, Mr. Crook's singular personality began to
become more pronounced, especially in shaping the nose, as the cars became
remarkably less beautiful. By 2003, Mr. Crook's singularity gave us, well,
how would I say this? Perhaps Mr. Bertolio's design accurately reflects Mr.
Crook's design ideas in his later years.

As with all companies whose owner looms large, customers must take the good
(the car) with the bad (some of its visual design aspects). The evolution of
the current Blenheim is a case in point where the company itself advertises
the "Blenheim 3 Frontal Restyle" which "transforms your cars look and adds
value". This can be attributed to a new owner, younger, with his finger on
the pulse of his customers. Bristol Cars is doing rather well with their
designs, in my opinion. Now, if they would come out with Bristol's answer to
the Tesla...

As Mr. Bertolio's car for Bristol's future, it seems to be a Bentley nose
grafted on an AC Bristol type rear, and a high dashboard as in a Piper
Archer. Since he asks for opinions, rather than praise... Mr. Bertolio, it
is not a winner. In feeling it resembles the 1949 Triumph 2000 that sought
to exude the elegance with its wide wings and ostentatious design features,
but ended up looking like a trollup with bad makeup and too much hair. I say
this with the utmost respect for your efforts, but before launching a new
career, perhaps a few years in apprenticeship to Pininfarina might be in
order.


Claude

Brabazon
 

Hi, reminds me of Franco Scaglione's 1953 design of the scalloped front wings of the first Arnolt Coupes and the one and only Bolide Deluxe scalloped winged prototype show car....and of course his BAT designs

Kenneth

Brabazon
 

Oh dear,

I should have known better, well named.
The "Brabazon" was an ill conceived project at the wrong time.
It was to have catered for a class of person the 2nd world war had made
redundant.
It had an out dated method of propulsion was inconsidered for its time, only
got of the ground to be forgoten except for being one of Aviations greatest
failures.

I am with Philippa, even though I like my 407 better than my short lived
412, but
a Fighter I would love to drive and be seen in any day, I think the Brabazon
best
left to the history books. The car proposed car design sold to China.

I would rather like the next Bristol (an open top preferably) called a
Bulldog.
Sorry, but let Bristol progess slowly but surely with wonderful shapes
recalling
the past and paying complements to the old names that were deserved.

Silverton's, you are not doing a bad job, keep up the good work!

Nick Challacombe, old git and proud of it!

Brabazon.............
 

It's nice that Sr Bertolio is interested in our motor-cars, and, from looking at the other cars on his website, he does have great talent. However, the Brabazon seems like the cars I drew during boring geography lessons on scraps of paper.............I couldn't see over the bonnet of those either ! I also opine that the Brabazon looks a bit too much like the Rover Turbine car of 1956 - repeat 1956 ! I have uploaded a picture as an attachment. Sorry to be so negative, Sr Bertolio. Try using a 411 as a basis.........everyone loves those.

Giacomo, please be aware that Bristol enthusiast's tolerance for quirky designs does have it's limits!

The Brabazon is a non starter for me. I think the design is particularly ugly at the front and the body looks bloated and too big for the chassis.

Also, I think you should take a look at how your site renders in Firefox3.

Philippa - I don't think anyone has said the 412 is "ugly", just that it reminds people of a fridge :) Particularly white examples!

Kevin

PS. To my mind colour makes a huge difference to my opinion of the 412. I think they look much better in mid to darker colours.

Brabazon
 

Dear Giacomo,

The best view is from above but even from here is is too bloated especially across the front section. The whole car appears too bulky and although you retain lots of glass with a light and airy cabin, the external scalloping of wheel arches simply looks ugly and out of character with the car. It probably robs the spare wheel spot of valuable space (have you ever looked inside the wheel arch compartments of a Bristol?).

As others have suggested, start with a 410/411 and work your ideas on improving the front and rear details. Having a narrow track makes curves on the side of body challenging especially when one considers the limited side to side space inside a Bristol.

My 406 from the rear reminds me of a Bertone designed Alfa 105 series with a sloping pert behind. The alteration I am having done to the front is merely to remove the ugly Lucas stuck on direction indicators (blinkers) whilst engendering a hint of 1950-60's Alfa Guilia air intake mixed with DB4 side and blinker lights (separate).

Like others, I think the RR slab front end far too blunt and square. If you want to hint at aeronautical past, then more aerodynamic curves and shapes should be employed. Don't Bangle-ise it either. The rear should be less fussy as well. I wouldn't bother with automating rear quarter lights as these are best handled by hand (if anyone is in the rear).

OK so I, like many others, was quick to reply after seeing Giacomo Bertolio's "Bristol design". But then I started to think ............ might this be a hoax? Well he, the author, did say that a chat with Mr C at Kensington "further enhanc(ed) my passion and knowledge of the brand." I remember my first visit to Kensington and my chat with Mr C had the opposite effect! So perhaps it is a hoax?

If it is a hoax then perhaps his name "Giacomo Bertolio" is an anagram.

I came up with 3 possible solutions, but wondered if anyone else could help with a solution?

"Giacomo Bertolio" yields:-

1) A Robotic Ego Limo
2) A Big Coolie Motor
3) Ciao Big Ole Motor

Brabazon
 

Personally I like the idea of automated rear quarterlights, although I'm
not sure how it would be done without being obtrusive.

Brabazon
 

I can't believe this is for real. Is it designed to be produced in wood? Looks like the work of a child. Don't give up the day job.

Brabazon
 

I think that if anyone wants to base designs on Bristols, then they are to be encouraged - on the basis that there is no such thing as bad publicity. I think we have been rather rude to Giacomo - keep up the good work! Not too keen on this particular design, but the Jana 08 shows definite potential. And thanks to whoever it was that mentioned the gas turbine Rover - that's exactly what it reminded me of, but I couldn't place it.

Andy Bernard

Brabazon
 

Andy Bernard is correct; we designers of the future should be encouraged.
I would welcome other members' opinions on the attached car designs for the
proposed new Bristol Titanic. These are the shortlisted ones. Perhaps you
could all help me choose which one to make into a prototype. Mr Silvertongue
has told me he is very keen to see the chosen design so he can begin
applying Bristol traditions towards its final form.



Richard

Remember, Richard, that the factory still has most of that job-lot of air-conditioning units they bought in 1971, so those will have to fit into the designs you offered. One can only hope they will, because all designs were worthy of.......continued on page 94.

Vote for your favourite
 

Hi Richard,

I would like to vote for the second design "3G". I think it's stength is in combining the rounded curves of the 400 at the back with the sleek lines of the 411 at the front.

Philippa
http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/a...0&d=1224966579

but...ugly!
 

I think you may like to read some tutorials on use of your design software as your design looks like a game car from the last decade, but an especially ugly one. Even the example car is better defined than your Brabazon...http://aliasdesign.autodesk.com/lear...%20Car_133219/

Brabazon
 

Well done!
Your children must be proud of the example you are setting them!
Tongue firmly in cheek! As was the first rendition I am sure.

Nick

I briefly owned a mid-80s Nissan that had remote opening for the rear quarter windows. This was accomplished with some style, consisting of two levers between the front seats that looked and operated like aircraft throttle levers, and simply pushed and pulled the window by cable.

As for the Brabazon, I'm afraid I'm not a fan.

Brabazon
 

Don't forget, the BMW 3-series coupe has had electric operation of the
rear windows for over 10 years.

Andrew

Actually didn't the Rolls Royce Silver Shadow 2 door coupe and its other variants, such as the James Young 2 door bodywork have elec opening rear quarterlights as opposed to windows that dropped down into the body? This being 1966-67.
I think even Ferraris such as the early 365 coupes had this as well

I remember a tiny Lancia Y10 I had years ago also had electric windows like that. A rather nice "show-off" gadget. This thread is getting rather anorackky, isn't it !

Dear all,

thank you for the clinic test. At least it seems this is the most animated thread on bristolcars.info so far!

I obvioulsy accept all criticism and can agree with some but please understand that when a new design is proposed styling cues tend to be exaggerated. When cooperating with the manufacturer things usually get toned down, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. Just think about the difference between the first scale model of the Fighter and the end result.

Brabazon can appear too bulky in places but we have to accept cars are growing bigger, not only because people is getting taller and larger but also because safety elements, ancillaries and crash test requirements require larger bodyworks. Think about pedestrian crash regulations with the minimum distance from engine block to the bonnet, or the mandatory detachable front in impacts.

For the user named Potential, there is a big difference in a rendered 2D sketch as in the reported tutorial and a full 3D virtual model as the Brabazon.

For 406special, I personally do not like some of the Chris Bangle style but he definitely contributed to the big sales success of BMW.

Thanks Kevin Howard for signalling the Firefox3 problem. I completely redesigned the graphics in order for the website to be quicker and clearer to read with all browsers.

Finally, in defence of Mr. Crook I must say I arrived in 2003 well past closing time at the Kensington showroom (not even dressed as an Arab prince), he opened the door for me and my wife and we talked cars for over one hour. He was very enthusiastic about both Fighter and Blenheim, we talked about homologation problems, market for the Fighter, Ferraris, Bentleys and so on. He seemed he did not want to let us go!

So if Mr. Silverton asks for a design give him my telephone number.

Regards

Giacomo Bertolio (aka Big Coolie Motor)

Brabazon
 

Giacomo, you're a gentleman and a good sport (as we say in Australia).

Even allowing for modern crash worthiness design, it would be wonderful to
see the earlier classic Bristol (405/404/407/411) influences, especially if
you want the Brabazon nose cone effect (see 404-407).

Less is often more and in the rear of your design you have exaggeration and
it lacks elegance (again check out the rear of all earlier Bristols
pre-603).

Clyde

my thoughts
 

after reading this thread you have all failed to realise that the true bristol has a very curvy body with massive headlights it is very easy to get into and a very pleasurable ride

as we say in yorkshire you are a crank

Goa Tribe Maybe Very Good Indian Car Makers

Brabazon
 

Cadillacs had power vent windows in the 60's

----- Original Message -----
From: "BristolCars.info" <webmaster@bristolcars.info>; "BristolCars Info"
<forums@bristolcars.info>
To: <greg.woog@verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Bristol News-t-133] Brabazon


CURRENT MESSAGE FROM: mrbennetts

I remember a tiny Lancia Y10 I had years ago also had electric windows
like that. A rather nice "show-off" gadget. This thread is getting
rather anorackky, isn't it !

power quarterlight windows
 

So what was the usual way to electrically control quarterlight windows?

power quarterlight windows
 

Kevin,

I have tried to get info, and have come across the owners manual. It
doesn't say what the mechanical design is though.

http://fsartori.free.fr/uscars/manuals/manuel_cad66.pdf

Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "BristolCars.info" <webmaster@bristolcars.info>; "BristolCars Info"
<forums@bristolcars.info>
To: <greg.woog@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Bristol News-t-133] power quarterlight windows


______________________
CURRENT MESSAGE FROM: Kevin Howard

So what was the usual way to electrically control quarterlight windows?



______________________
PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM: californiabristol

Cadillacs had power vent windows in the 60's

----- Original Message -----
From: "BristolCars.info" <webmaster@bristolcars.info>; "BristolCars Info"
<forums@bristolcars.info>
To: <greg.woog@verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Bristol News-t-133] Brabazon


CURRENT MESSAGE FROM: mrbennetts

I remember a tiny Lancia Y10 I had years ago also had electric windows
like that. A rather nice "show-off" gadget. This thread is getting
rather anorackky, isn't it !

Kevin, at the risk of sounding flippant, the "usual way to electrically control the quarterlight windows" on the Lancia was to press the ruddy electric switch ! However, to be a bit more helpful, I remember that there was a very small servo motor on each window, resembling a slightly more bulky set-up than the Leyland Sherpa manual versions found in Bristols. They worked well.

Here's a picture of the Lancia; hinged window at the front, motor halfway up at the rear.

I took your criticisms to heart and reworked the Brabazon, especially in proportions. I hope you will find it more Bristol than Pixar!

Regards to all

Giacomo
www.bertolio.it

Brabazon
 

An improvement but I think it needs softening of the exaggeration of
the lines across the tops of the sides of the front and rear wheel
arches (I do not like the height of the curves into and away from the
front and rear pillars. Also I am still unsure of the heavily
scalloped wheel arches. At the rear I would prefer less hunched
curvature across the top of the boot lid. Indeed flatening it out
and sloping it down similar to a 410-411 would be better. You
should remove the rear oval appearance as a result in centre of rear
end. Otherwise the front should be a little more delicate and less
"in yer face".

Clyde
406 Special

Hi
Trying to scale the side elevation it looks as if there isn't a wheel diameter plus, behind the front wheels and infront of the door hinge line, but then models don't always display everything.
I quite like the homage to the aero industry roots in the frontal treatment and the elevated wing tops for visual location of the car on the road.
Didn't they do something similar on the Blenheim?
Have you taken into account that the rear of the body is a self supporting structure as the chassis finishes virtually at the rear axle or are you thinking an outrigger structural support for the boot area?
The rear oval appears to be a styling feature (perhaps mirroring the front elevation, rather than having a practical purpose, which isn't normal Bristol fashion

Brabazon
 

Dear Bristol admirers (not sure if I can spell affectionado's).
I'm am really sorry to have to write this. My comments I'm sure won't be
liked.
But with no apologies from my side - whoever is sending in these futuristic
designs must be pulling (y)our pl*nker(s)!
These designs are all absolutely awful! (Can't find the bold/italic button).
My advice in any case to him would be not to give up his daytime job!
I grew up in the UK in the 1960's and as a teenager probably tried to
improve even the lines of the E-type Jaguar or James Dean's Porsche during
latin classes.
We all know that car designs went disasterously wrong after that (again,
can't find the bold/italic button).
Early Bristols were lovely, as were Aston Martins, Jaguars, Masseratis (my
spelling is not good) and Bentley Continentels.
But almost all car manufacturers went completely off the rails in the
1970's, and I'm afraid Bristol did too. Let's be honest, they are really
ugly! (Again, I can't find the bold/italic button). How can anybody defend
the exterior lines (let alone lights!) of any of the later Bristol models?
They all look - lets be honest - like Masserati Bi-Turbos. (Again, sorry for
the spelling!).
Only a few cars - Aston Martin's, Bentley Continental's, and a few others
survived this period relatively unscathed.and are almost back now on track.
I loved Bristols all the way through to the 406 (especially the 404 and 405,
and with special coachwork).
Sorry, I got a bit carried away.
I said my comments wouldn't be liked!
My comments by the way are purely regarding the exterior lines. I know the
interiors are super (with possible exceptions I understand of the
quarterlights, airco etc.).
Please accept my apologies in advance!
I'd still like to own an old Bristol! And I guess Chrysler parts won't be
available soon either.
This is all a bit tounge in cheek. Please don't be offended!
With best regards,
Andrew.
Oh ****! Now I see below someone has beaten me too this!

, you can cars on one hand that got through the 1970's without designing
really ugly rubbish. And most of those went wrong afterwards.

Brabazon
 

Ok. The Brabazon is really not good. But I can't agree that the 70s
cars were ugly except in the way that mix jagger or julia Roberts
are ugly. From any Bristol made I choose a 412 to have built as new
(with a few refinements).

Brabazon
 

Giacomo,
I am able to see that you have put a great deal of effort into your Ugly
Duckling in you effort
to pen a Princely car. The problem that you have yet to solve is to find a
Princess to kiss
your Frog and turn it into a Prince Brabazon.

Kind regards and I wish you all the best for the Christmas and Pantomime
Season.

Nick.

Brabazon
 

Dear Bristol Lovers,
Re style of new Bristol model (Brabazon etc), why not
recommission the Bertone styled Arnolt roadster with modern V6 or V8 running
gear. Any takers?

UK 6