Bristol: The Inside Story

[Kevin H]

The new book titled "Bristol: The Inside Story" by Christopher Balfour is due out Feb 2010 and is available for pre order from Amazon at the discounted price of $39.66 instead of $62.95 (these are Australian dollar prices).

It remains to be seen whether there is any new information in this book, or if it is just a re-hash of what's already out there. The low price suggests the latter.

[Ashley James]

Haines Books are pretty average IMO and there is only so much
information available.

Ash

[TLF799R]

I love the way you are so open minded and never pre-judge anything!!!
In actual fact Christopher has done a great deal of work on the book and
has spoken to many current bristol owners and figures in the company. I'm
surprised he hasn't spoken to such a reknowned expert as yourself???

Philippa

[penman]

Hi
It is presumably the same book as Amazon UK shows as Bristol A very British story.
They have it at £35 for pre-order due 8 Oct 2009, normal price £50.

[penman]

Hi
I have had an email today, from Amazon, saying that there is a delay on this book.

Originally Posted by penman

Hi
It is presumably the same book as Amazon UK shows as Bristol A very British story.
They have it at £35 for pre-order due 8 Oct 2009, normal price £50.

[lansdownplace]

Amazon.com are quoting the 1st of February 2010 which is a date I
have heard quoted recently

[mrbennetts]

Well said, Phillipa. You beat me to it !

[412usa]

I'm not sure you are being fair Kevin. Christopher has had access to some new and unique info and I suggest that we wait to see the book before comment.



Peter

[Nick Challacombe]

Nick Challacombe.

Home phone

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by 412usa

I'm not sure you are being fair Kevin. Christopher has had access to some new and unique info and I suggest that we wait to see the book before comment.

Peter

I'd already ordered a copy anyway, although I ordered it from Amazon.com and they are marketing it under a different title - "Bristol: The Inside Story", which suggests a bit of a "scoop", i.e information we have never seen before. This is where my skepticism lies, because $39.66 seems very cheap for a new hardback marque history that contains new factual information.

Hopefully it's based on a candid interview with Tony Crook without the marketing hype, rather than a collection of anecdotes from people who idolise the company.

The proof of the pudding will no doubt be in the eating.

Kevin

PS. I suspect I paid US$, not AUD as I said in my earlier post.

[Sam410]

Originally Posted by Ashley James

Haines Books are pretty average IMO and there is only so much information available.

Ash

Christopher has interviewed widely and conducted original research for this book, and I know has had access to previously unpublished information and pictures. It should be much more than simply a rewrite of previously published myths I look forward to reading it.

[shirlaw n]

Has Mr Balfour had access to any available list of "original" build sheets of all the 2 litre cars ?? One hears from time to time that such a Cardboard Index survives,but appears to be "off limits" to us ordinary folk.Over the past few years I was able to obtain accurate build sheets (for a nominal sum) for my MGB Rover P6B and RR Silver Shadow,all now sold on.I have heard a whisper that it is possible a very early 401 saloon was owned by the late Queen Mother.Thats all folks norman

[mrbennetts]

Shirlaw.......I too obtained the build sheets for my Silver Shadow, which are most interesting (to me !). The wonderful RR Club has them all. You may be 100% sure that Mr Crook has one of the most intersting customer and car files in the industry. He told me that there are too many names to release, even if he wrote an autobiogrphy. I expect that would be a good seller !
I do not think HM Queen Mother ever owned a Bristol. She went in for Jags ,Daimlers and Fords........always needed 4 doors, not being a driver.

[Ashley James]

I do think that the early history is what's needed and so far not
appeared thanks to Mr Crook's intransigence, assuming records exist.

Ash

[jimfoz]

Firstly I agree with the others who have defended the author in relation to the unfair comments. I for one look forward to receiving my copy and making my own judgement!

Also, why, just because it is a Bristol book, does it have to cost hundreds of pounds to be considered any good? The amount of illustrations and research in a book doesn't always mean that it is automatically selling at a high price and a low price doesn't mean it will automatically be a poor book. A friend of mine who wrote an enormously concise and detailed biography of Mike Hawthorn last year, spent many hundreds of hours researching interviewing and sanctioning one-off illustrations. His well illustrated 450page book was only selling for between £45 and £60 a copy.

I seem to remember the Oxley book wasn't that expensive when first published. However due to Bristol being quite a niche marque in terms of mass interest, I imagine only very few copies were sold, hence the enormous prices they fetch now on ebay.

The fact this new Bristol book is by such a large publisher as Haynes means that it will naturally be lower priced than some of the 'boutique' publishing companies who publish leather bound tomes for hundreds of pounds. As well as their hardbacked technical manuals for Ford Fiestas, Haynes do publish some well-printed and well-bound books in their more expensive ranges.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by jimfoz

Firstly I agree with the others who have defended the author in relation to the unfair comments.

I merely expressed my skepticism about a Bristol book marketed by Amazon.com as "The Inside Story" which has been discounted by over 50% many months ahead of it's launch (I have pre ordered the book at $39.66 or £24).

Given the old adage "You get what you pay for", I don't see that as "unfair".

Having absolutely no knowledge of the author, that level of discounting suggest to me that either the publisher has no idea about marketing and perceived value pricing, or they don't have much confidence in the book.

I'm not suggesting that it should cost hundreds of pounds, but given the current alternatives for people seeking books on Bristols, £50 should be easily achievable. If it really does contain old photographs and information that has never been seen before, then a higher price tag may well have been justified.

I sincerely hope that the new book is very good, and that it turns out to be an absolute bargain!

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Kevin Howard

I merely expressed my skepticism about a Bristol book marketed by Amazon.com as "The Inside Story" which has been discounted by over 50% many months ahead of it's launch (I have pre ordered the book at $39.66 or £24).

Given the old adage "You get what you pay for", I don't see that as "unfair".

Having absolutely no knowledge of the author, that level of discounting suggest to me that either the publisher has no idea about marketing and perceived value pricing, or they don't have much confidence in the book.

I'm not suggesting that it should cost hundreds of pounds, but given the current alternatives for people seeking books on Bristols, £50 should be easily achievable. If it really does contain old photographs and information that has never been seen before, then a higher price tag may well have been justified.

I sincerely hope that the new book is very good, and that it turns out to be an absolute bargain!

Kevin, I'm not sure you understand how Amazon does business. They take a huge commission for listing a book. In many cases books now are print-on-demand where they never actually touch the book, it gets shipped from a subsidiary printer. Then they apply a large discount from that large cut they take, meaning they make it very difficult for the traditional book store to compete since they get their margin on the list price... and they have to order it, stock it and sell it over the counter.

The discount has nothing to do with the value of the book, it's what happens when Amazon attains market dominance. In most cases after everyone has taken their cut, the author earns very little - if they write books for dollars they would better work flipping burgers for McDonalds.

Claude

[Kevin H]

I have copied Claude's post to a new thread titled Book Publishing in the Other Topics of Interest forum for those interested in discussing the vagaries of book publishing (and authoring).

[geo]

Originally Posted by Claude

Kevin, I'm not sure you understand how Amazon does business. They take a huge commission for listing a book. In many cases books now are print-on-demand where they never actually touch the book,
Claude

What Claude points out is true and, of course, many of the Amazon listed titles never actually make it to the market place. In this case, Christopher Balfour's book was commissioned by Haynes, so it will be produced in the conventional way. Perhaps the delay and uncertainty about the publication date is occasioned by Haynes selling some of their 'non-core'- book printing to JF Print Ltd. Actually, this is the book I mentioned in a posting of last Oct./November under the heading 'Crook/Silverton Postulation', when I saw the finished final draft the anticipated publication was early 2009. I should remain sceptical about the exact date when it will appear as although Amazon states Oct. 2009, these times are highly unreliable and it does not appear at all on the Haynes forthcoming titles pages.

The details of the book as quoted by Amazon look like the type of blurb that the author would have had to supply to Haynes.

Originally Posted by Claude

after everyone has taken their cut, the author earns very little - if they write books for dollars they would better work flipping burgers for McDonalds.

Claude

Tell me about it! What many do not realize is that with titles like this, it does not look too bad when the cheque for the advance comes in, but of course, nothing else follows this for some time as any commission earned by the author is set off against the advance payment until the day when that sum has been covered by the number of sales.

From conversations with Christopher Balfour I believe he has done his utmost to justify all that he has included (and has interviewed the principals in the tale), but even with access to extant records, the author has to decide upon a level of interpretation. We discussed how difficult it is to establish the undeniable 'facts' when writing in this genre.

From my own experience, doing a slim volume for Shire on The Rover was relatively straightforward for the initial edition (other than the picture being painted by British Aerospace was a very rose-tinted-spectacles one), rather more tricky with the second edition as I just did not believe what I was being told by the BMW people at Gaydon (rightly, as it turned out!), and having had to write a new ending for the book prior to the expensive and long awaited enquiry into the demise of Rover (should appear in the next few days), it was a nightmare and every word had to be checked by the publisher's solicitors — this resulted in many phrases having to be toned down for fear of libel.

Even when the principals are happy to co-operate, things can change. For example, I had the complete co-operation of the current Lord Rootes when doing a book on the Imp and had a copy of the privately-published autobiography of his father (published for the consumption of the extended family). When inspecting the contemporaneous cabinet papers (especially notes to and from the Prime Minister of the day and his Chancellor of the exchequer) it became clear that the preservation of the Rootes' family fortune was being handled at the highest level. This played an important part in the demise of the eponymous motor manufacturer, but as one might reasonably expect, this was not a topic that any of the current family were happy to discuss.

The other obvious problem, and one that Balfour encountered, was significant person A says this (and supplies a snippet of evidence), B contradicts it, and C comes up with a totally different version, but again with some evidence. I recall trying to find out about the different types of automatic gearbox envisaged or used in the Imp — both the engineering designer and the styling people denied that this was ever an idea. Then one day an archivist sent me photocopies of the tests on the pre-production prototypes and invited me to go and photograph the only remaining extant automatic gearbox! Somehow, it had been spirited out of the factory when the project was dropped and he had acquired it some years later. This sort of evidence is sadly rare, so the author has to weigh up the balance of probabilities according to what he has been told and researched and interpret all the nuances the he or she has picked up.

It is hard work writing such books, and Christopher Balfour's seemed to me to offer an interesting read, but goodness knows why any of us do it — it certainly is not the money!

Geo

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by geo

...the author has to weigh up the balance of probabilities according to what he has been told and researched and interpret all the nuances the he or she has picked up.

Geo

That's all very well, but if the author doesn't make it clear that this is his or her personal interpretation of the evidence to hand, what the author says is accepted by many readers as undisputed fact.

I would prefer the author to spell out the different accounts he or she received during the research and let the reader decide which is the true version of events.