Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

There's an interview with Toby Silverton in the Feb 2010 issue of Octane (issue #80).

Why not scan and print for those who don't see OCTANE?

Because I don't own the copyright. If it was an old issue which was no longer available I would consider scanning it, but this is the current issue of Octane which can be bought in the shops for about $10.

Copyright has nothing to do with it, at least in the USA, Kevin, because you wouldn't be scanning it for financial gain or commercial use.

Are you telling me you have never copied a newspaper or magazine clipping for a friend? Ever? I sincerely hope you are not.

And, to gainsay your argument -"If it was an old issue which was no longer available I would consider scanning it," being "unavailable" does not, per se, negate a copyright. Copyrights continue on many out-of-print publications.

FYI, Octane is not readily available on US newstands, especially outside of such markets as New York, or Los Angeles.

Nemme mind, Kev, me mate, a friend in Old Blighty has obliged me.

Ta!

I never said it does (negate copyright), I'm just saying what I would and would not consider doing.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

This is possibly the first (and perhaps only) time I will leap to Kevin's defence but he is right in this instance. These magazines rely on cover sales and do allow for world wide distribution and if we scanned articles at will on forums then it would cannibalise their sales here in the UK as well as overseas to Octanes detriment, hence the existence of copyright.

In due course Octane will publish the interview online for free access, at a point where they don't expect any further revenue from that article.

The argument is wait, or pay.

You led off your response by citing "copyright." That absolutely shows that, in your mind, "copyright" was a very important. At least for a new publication.

And, then, in so many words, you stated that, under certain conditions, i.e. lack of availability due to being out-of-print, you might consider copying, which could still violate "copyright."

There is nothing bad about declining to copy, but let us be consistent in our thinking.

So far as newsstand sales are concerned, where there is no chance to buy from the newsstand, there can be no loss of newsstand sales. People are not likely to go to some large city, hundreds of miles away, to look for a copy.

Indeed, it is arguable that, by someone scanning and making the article available to persons who have no reasonable chance to buy a newsstand issue, someone might decide to subscribe, which would be a plus for the publication.

I am very grateful to my benefactor for sending me a scanned copy. I enjoyed it very much (since, on the occasions when I was with Toby Silverton, I hadn't realized that he always wore mis-matched socks; how could I have continued our friendship without knowing that?), and I can't imagine, that, under the circumstances, the publisher would be annoyed by my having received it.

Maybe so, but I believe the publisher wouldn't be very happy about it being published on a web site which the whole world can access, when most people can go out and buy the magazine from their local news agent.

From my perspective, as the owner of this site and web server it sits on, (along with several of my business web sites), I have to pay a bit more attention to copyright than you do.

That must have hurt :)

Next thing you know we'll have Philippa sticking up for me as well ...

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

That must have hurt :)

Next thing you know we'll have Philippa sticking up for me as well ...
---End Quote---

Steady on old boy!!

OK, we've endured a week of bickering over copyright law, but has anyone got anything interesting to say about the article?

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Yes, possibly.
Good to see that Bristol Cars is likely to survive for the interim. The inevitable succession of custodianship has happened and it's reassuring (from my point of view anyway) that the aviation links continue (Silverton's background). There's no doubt that the touch of eccentricity and the discreetly bespoke nature of Bristols are substantial portions of the reasons we are all attracted to them. This is all apart from the fact that we can reasonably expect to get into a Bristol, drive and arrive at the other end without suffering the indignity of breakdowns and other no-go confoundations that some other exotics are well known for! In 1979/80 and in the late eighties, I frequently passed the Bristol Showrooms and they always struck me as quaintly fitting the Bristol ethos perfectly and the article seems to confirm this today.

The publication Car (I think is was) had what seemed to be an even more interesting article on the service division and its 89 year-old manager - several copies of which my local newsagent had in stock. As luck would have it, I had forgotten my wallet and by the time I got back there two days later to get one, they had infuriatingly returned these back to the distributors so it looks as I've missed out there.

Incidently, I've ordered Christopher Balfour's new book. He's an excellent writer, a long-term owner of a 406 and well qualified to produce something on Bristol. It should be a good read and apart from the Brookland's Portfolio, it's the first Bristol book since the LJKS 'A Private Car'.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

You're absolutely right. It would be an infringement of copyright, period.
Andrew.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Can anyone let me know the correct name of the Bristol aircraft I used to
fly to France in as a child in the early 60's, from Hurn Airport to
Cherbourg?
It took 3 cars and 12 passengers and had very strange wing cross-section
that was almost oval, and flapped up and down on take off?
I thought it was called a Bristol City, but I think I'm confused this with
some Cockney rhyming slang.
They had leather seats then, as did all cars at the time, maybe Lancaster
bombers too.
Rgds, Andrew.

John Keighley...supposedly I am being mailed a copy of the CAR (also not available on any local magazine racks) article...assuming I get it, how could I best get you a copy of the article, if you would like one?

An interesting reply from the subject of the OCTANE article, after I emailed him that I had it, and enjoyed reading it and hearing about his odd socks, among other things:

"Hello there, LL,
I may have odd socks but they seem to be trying to portray me as an eccentric! How unfair. TS"

You can rest assured TS's tongue was planted firmly in his cheek when he replied.

What caught my eye in the O story were:

1. "The product line had been essentially static for years." - DD, editorializing.

2. "We've also tried to make the cars to a higher quality and more efficiently, and a lot of quality has been added where you can't see it." -DD, quoting TS.

3. Addressing "the adversarial relationship that had grown up between Tony Crook and the media... (DD, editorializing.)"
"Tony was so secretive that it always seemed he was covering up something bad, and therefore even people who are interested in Bristols are often quite sceptical about us; at times we've had journalists write bad reviews of the cars who have never sat in one." DD, quoting TS.

4."Personally, the only questions I won't answer are production figures...The truth is most years our production is set by how many cars we can physically make." - DD, quoting TS.
[DD = article author, Dale Drinnon; TS = Toby Silverton]

I have read my Balfour book twice, very carefully, and as a newcomer to Bristols (21 months since first hearing of the marque), I have enjoyed it tremendously.

Hi Rubbond
Probably a Bristol Freighter, could have been Silver City Airways.

Balfour's book refers to a Silver City Airways Bristol Freighter on pg 113, also showing photographs of the first 400 shipped to Sweden in such a craft, pg 40, as well as a Beutler 406 being delivered to the UK, pg 241, in the same aircraft in 1957 (photo pg 278..

There is another reference to transporting a car to Europe for Tony Crook's 1950 Montlhery testing on pg 176.

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s_wayfarer.jpg"
will show you a couple of drawings of the basic aircraft.

Balfour also makes reference, pg 8, to "...Wayfarer, the passenger version of the Freighter..."

Duplicated posting

Bob Schmitt started a new thread here which I took the liberty of renaming Bristol Aircraft

Kevin

John,
Why do you (or anyone else) find aviation "links" reassuring?

Kevin

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Kevin,
I have pretty well been in and around aviation all my life. Cockpit and instrument panel layouts are a great source of interest. When an aircraft manufacturer then turns to producing cars and we look at their approach to driver ergonomics - how they have designed the controls, there are alway unique ideas (some may say quirky) incorporated into the design. Saab are another example with driver layout influenced by their aircraft design. I had a couple of Saabs over the years the last being the 900 Aero Turbo in the early 90s. Apart from horrendous servicing costs it was a delightful car. Take the switch gear and the ignition key in the floor between the two front seats. To the unitiated, this may be a silly place but in the dark, your left hand can find it instantly. Everything was within easy reach with space utilised well and logically. Generally in these cars, ergonomics were excellent and some of this would have to have links to their aviation heritage.
Bristol also has this commonality. Switchgear is placed to be easily located without having to look. The instrumentation in the binnacle (404-Blenheim) and controls design in earlier cars has aviation influences.
This can't be a bad thing. What I'm saying is the links can't hurt and are probably a positive for BCL's image as an individual car manufacturer.
Aerodynamics has always played a part in design of Bristols to make them as efficient as possible.
A week ago I met a fellow who grew up in Bristol and he told me that as a boy, he used to watch Bristols being tested on the Filton runway.We've all seen photos of some of the cars with tufts of wool attached to the external surfaces to assist in analysis of aerodynamics on these cars being tested in that very same place. It's nice to see that there's some links to aviation still but I don't expect everyone to necessarily see it from this point of view. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Silverton uses his aviation background to contribute in some way to the design and development of future Bristol cars.
John K.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Isn't Toby Silverton involved in aircraft parts and not aircraft design? I
also do not see the connection. Even if he owned an aircraft design
company, i'm still not sure what that has to do with making Bristol any more
or less successful as a car company, it didn't with Saab.

I personally have never had an issue finding something in the dark, as it is
only one of a few things you want anyway. You can usually find them without
looking as it is second nature. Of course you could always switch the
overhead light on or leave the door ajar.

I was never a fan of the ignition key in the floor as it attracted all kinds
of dirt into the lock, plus most new cars do not actually have keys anymore.
Interiors on modern cars are generally well lit.

Andrew

Isn't it the perceived idea that because it has an aircraft connection then it is going to be built to aircraft standards (not break down/fall apart as much). Also the design will follow aircraft principles (clear, easy to find switches, good visability, ventilation etc). It may be felt that because there is still an aircraft connection, these principles will continue at the car company where some of the employees (notably Sid Lovesy) originally started their careers designing bits for Bristol Aircraft.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Ouch!
Just wanted to make it clear that it wasn't me that sent the message below!
I can be grumpy, but not that grumpy!
By chance my wife has a Saab 900, so I do agree that some of the safety
features are fairly stupid - like having to engage reverse gear to remove
the ignition key. There was also something silly about how or when to
operate the electric roof.
Thanks again to whomever sent the link to Wikipedia on the Bristol aircraft.
I didn't realise that I had ever flown in a 'plane that was designed during
the 2nd World War. But it did feel like it!
Best regards,
The other Andrew.

Toby Silverton interview in Octane
 

Hello John and Kevin,

you are absolutely right about the importance of driver ergonomics and how
much the aviation research means to improve on this important side of active
safety. Sadly, modern avionics are not so perfect (I always speak strictly
from the ophthalmic/visual perception point of view, of course), but
automotive instruments worsened dramatically in the last few years, many of
the so-called 'designers' ignoring the fundamental laws (Warrick etc.)

As this is one of my fields of research, a few years ago I was invited in
Detroit for a congress and this is one of the papers I presented there:

http://www.stefanopasini.it/Oculisti...peedometer.htm

Maybe you would like to browse it and the Power Point presentation that
went with it.

I must say that classic British instruments are among the best in terms of
design, especially in their classic layout of black dial/white numbers and
hands. Bristols are very good, but IMHO the switchgear of my 409 is not so
effective as too many of its switches are out of my main visual field and
often have confusing labeling. The 409's main instruments and controls are
designed according to every good stereotype, though, and thus they are all
easy to use and never cause a potentially dangerous distraction.

Cheers

Stefano

silverton
 

Surely, the good news is that he is an interested chap with some engineering background ... not a 20 something yr old oligarch trying to make a quick buck. As for ergonomics ... lovely though my 412 may be there are some very quaint ergonomics. Not least of these is the wiper control. I wonder if a 747 has anything so hideous? P

Andrew,
I agree that it won't necessarily make them any more or less successful but it does contribute to making them a little different from other manufacturers. Components are different to design, yes, but there has always been some influence translated from aviation to motoring and it would not be in the least bit surprising that ideas continue to do this. Just because you're in the parts manufacturing/supply line doesn't mean that you're devoid of design knowledge. You have to be conversant with design in order to develop or supply the appropriate equipment.
Dirt in a Saab ignition lock? Never heard of it! I cleaned mine. I think there are a thousand reasons why Saab eventually failed but I'll bet that one of them had something to do with management.

Toby Silverton
 

is it my imagination or is this discussion concerning Toby and his 'other business interests' only a reflection of BCL's history since 1971 as since that date the company was owned, and one would imagine steered in all things, including design, by a car salesman?

If memory serves Tony Crook never worked for Bristol Aircraft?

He had been a pilot, and may well retain a PPL, he did not, as far as I am aware, ever build or design aircraft.

Toby Silverton
 

Ouch!

I suspect it is possible that those offering such detailed views of Mr
Silverton's qualifications did not attend the Fighter lecture. His love and
deep knowledge of engineering issues shone through.

Whatever previous owners may or may not have been that was no mere car
salesman!!

Philippa

Toby Silverton
 

Well said Philippa. For those who didn't get to the lecture, the Heritage trust can supply a DVD for a modest fee. All arguments will be blown out of water.

As an aside I spent a couple of hours with Toby looking at a Fighter whilst he explained, amongst other aerodynamic issues, exactly how the airflow management through the engine bay facilitated cooling but then fed back out through the side vents, was drag neutral and reattached the turbulent airflow generated by the front wheels to the sides of the car in a laminar flow for greater high speed stability and lower drag. Where did that idea come from? The Mustang P51. In fact laminar airflow application was a big first for that plane and was the reason it was such a success. I am pretty sure Toby didn't build or design the P51, but that doesn't prevent him from knowing or applying the techniques used.

There are a number of other examples that you can point to. On the Blenheim there is a splitter bar in the radiator intake, whilst it looks like a styling piece but it is there as an aerodynamic foil to progressively disrupt airfow as speed increases (no effect below 60/70mph) to reduce the amount of air being drawn into the engine bay with all the issues that can create. Bristol achieve this with a simple static part, and that is what true engineering is all about.

Paul

Mostly to Phillipa.......
 

Whatever previous owners may or may not have been that was no mere car
salesman!!

Philippa[/quote]

Oh dear, now I have to join in ! I hope, and expect, Philippa, that you were not inferring that Mr Crook was a "mere car salesman".........He may have had his idiosyncratic methods, but he did run a successful company for very many years, and without him we wouldn't even be on this board, let alone be able to admire the wonderful machines he and his staff made, and which Mr Silverton continues to improve.

Maybe I mis-read your comment, in which case, do please accept my apologies. I usually agree with all your comments ! Stephen B.

Hello,
I do not own a Bristol but have admired them for many years. I note the references to the aircraft heritage and this has prompted me to recommend a recent book by an Aussie writer. The title is "Charles Kingsford Smith and those magnificent men". Although Kingsford Smith is the focus of the book many other pioneer airmen certainly get more than an honourable mention. There is also plenty of detail on the mechanical and engineering (and sheer good luck) that allowed those early machines to fly.

Peter FitzSimons 2009, Harper and Collins ISBN 978 0 7322 8487 9.

Regards to all,
Kev P

Mostly to Phillipa.......
 

Andrew,

It was the previous poster, not me, who used the car salesman tag. So, no
we are still in perfect harmony! LOL

Philippa

Anyone out there able to scan the "CAR" article on Mr. Syd Lovesey, Bristol Patchway, and email it to me?