Words in the July 2011 issue of Motor Sport

[browning l]

by Andrew Frankel, in his column, Road Cars

"Caterham is not the only small British manufacturer to be taken over since the last issue, but circumstances in which Bristol found itself under new management could scarcely have more different.
"Unlike Caterham, which is a thriving business ripe for expansion, Bristol was effectively moribund even before the receivers were called in. Now it has been sold to a company the name of another great marque from times gone by, Frazer Nash (sic), and time alone will tell what, if anything, will be made of it.
"The story of Bristol's decline is a difficult one to tell, not least because of its total aversion to letting the press test its cars. In 23 years I never managed it. But while some people with opinions worth listening to lauded them (Simon Draper and the late Leonard Setright to name but two) even an outside observer could see what little product existed was antiquated, expensive and a world removed from the massively funded, state-of-the-art machines bearing the Rolls-Royce and Bentley names.
"Their example suggests very clearly that what is required to breathe fresh air in to these brands is not just investment measurable in billions combined with an innate understanding of what a modern product from the marque should be, but also the technical expertise and equipment to make it happen. It is not clear if or how Frazer Nash will be able to do this.
“What should a modern Bristol be? To me, it should be the ultimate long-distance gentleman’s carriage: less ostentatious than a Rolls, less sporty than a Bentley, more discreet, timeless and longer-legged than both. It would need to do at least 500 miles between fills, doubling what you get from most similar cars, achieved by the fitment of a 120-litre fuel tank and a large capacity, seamlessly smooth, torque-laden V8 diesel engine of the type all the large German firms now make. For sales in the diesel-averse markets like the US and China, petrol-electric hybrid power would be a necessary compromise. It’s ‘three Rs’ would be ride, refinement, and range. And yes, it is a little hard to see right now.”

[Ronald G. Stephenson]

I have to agree with the previous comment, and a lot of modernization would help bring back the marque, but the investment would be substantial, and if the car were cobbled together with other people's components, it would be no better than other specialist offerings out there, lacking the uniqueness so necessary in the high-price category. A Brisol-looking body on say, a Chevrolet Corvette chassis would be a good start. All the high-tech, performance oriented drivetrain would eliminate all the development work, and the expense. Another option would be the Infinity (Nissan), rear drive platform on the G-35 and Q45. A gorgeous body and luxurious interior would top it off. This option could even bring the price down to a realistic level, thus reaching a larger market.
Set all that thinking aside, and stick to the old formula, and watch the marque languish until it disappears. Whatever happens, someone or some group will need to take a]hard look before taking the leap.

[Markus Berzborn]

This Andrew Frankel is really funny.

He describes what he expects from a modern Bristol and what he describes is exactly what Bristol has offered.

With the exception of this ridiculous Diesel proposition. Who needs a Diesel Bentley or RR?

Regards,
Markus

[Markus Berzborn]

Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson

A Bristol-looking body on say, a Chevrolet Corvette chassis would be a good start.

Doesn't sound like a good idea at all to me.
Who needs such a car? Bristols haven't certainly been bought because of their looks.

Regards,
Markus

[TBC]

I think that if BCL had been purchased by a major manufacturer then the use of a 'family' platform, as VW did with Bentley, allows the release of a new model benefitting from a reduction in time and investment. FN does not, at first appearance, have access to such. I'm not sure, outside of the USA, where BCL do not sell cars, that a 'new' car based on a Corvette chassis would appeal.

[Ronald G. Stephenson]

Anyone with a business background will tell you that alternatives are the stuff that makes businesses survive or fail. To sit by, and bemoan the passing of what was, to some, an interesting throwback to earlier times will not help matters. Fresh and new ideas are needed, and if it takes a decade to put together a workable plan, so be it. Better to do the research before making a leap. The market is fickle, and there has to be a niche for this kind of product.
Sad to see this temporary stumble, but most had to realize that things could not go on the way they were. I still want a Bristol, and I plan on 'settling' on an older model. I think I have a lot of company.

[lord sward]

Anyone remember the Caterham 21?

[Ronald G. Stephenson]

Most certainly, and had the pleasure of watching them race. Then, like the Cobra, a lot of people got the same idea and started making reproductions of the car and offering it as a kit or a turn-key. Lots of fun, and they come on line from time to time with articles in the car magazines. Great ideas never seem to go out of style or lose their popularity. Does this mean that some of us should make Bristol 409 bodies out of fibreglass and offer several donor chasiss options. Intriguing, what? Now, all we need is someone to offer up their car to take moulds.

[Markus Berzborn]

Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson

Does this mean that some of us should make Bristol 409 bodies out of fibreglass and offer several donor chasiss options. Intriguing, what?

No, not really intriguing.
Because it's to a large extent the separate chassis and the aluminium bodywork that defines a Bristol.

Regards,
Markus

[TBC]

the Caterham 21 was the unsuccessful attempt by the company to produce a 'modern' 7. It proved no match for Lotus's Elise

[Ronald G. Stephenson]

The Caterham and other replicas have been driven hard, tested by many of the enthusiast magazines, and they have gotten rave reviews. Technology marches on, and small specialist cars come and go as all of us know. It is a tribute to the original ideas that made these cars possible,and in no way is a replica any sort of 'knock-off' of the real thing. Few people can be deceived by them,and it makes for a lot of hands-on fun to construct a car.
My idea for the reproduction 409 stands, and if I only produced one car, that would be satisfaction enough. Besides, beauty may only be skin deep, but ugly goes clear to the bone. You have to love the 409 in order to stand the nasty comments people make when seeing the car. Matter of taste? Who knows?

[Markus Berzborn]

What's the use of a 409 replica as long as you can get a 409 upgraded by the company itself?

Regards,
Markus

[Ronald G. Stephenson]

Well, for starters, I would have to ship the car to GB. Second, I daresay that the cost of refurbishment would outstrip the cost of a car in decent condition. I can purchase good examples here for 35,000 USD.

[Markus Berzborn]

Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson

Second, I daresay that the cost of refurbishment would outstrip the cost of a car in decent condition.

Sure, but so would a one-off replica.

Regards,
Markus

[Kevin H]

A copy of a Bristol body in fibreglass, on a non original chassis and drivetrain is not a "replica", it's an imitation. It's definitely not a Bristol in any way. It has zero Bristol "DNA" in the classic car sense.

But why do this anyway when you can still buy a real original Bristol at a reasonable price?

I saw a funny thing at the weekend. A US built Ford Taurus with oversized Mercedes badging and hideous non original Mercedes wheel trims. The clown who did this had removed all the Ford badging but obviously couldn't bring himself to remove the Ghia badges from the wings! Oh, it had the number plate "BAD9" which was undoubtedly worth more than the car itself.

Why not do something like that Ron. Just get some Bristol badges and stick them on some mass produced piece of junk. It would be much cheaper than making a fibreglass copy of a 409 and so few people in the US would have even seen a real Bristol it wouldn't really make much difference

[lansdownplace]

Surely it is the chassis that is the common DNA to all Bristols (other than the Fighter). Why not start with the chassis and drivetrain from your favorite Bristol driving experience package and build a one off body to your own design on it? Jeff Marsh is about to offer this option from his new enterprise in Bristol I believe.

I did wonder if it would have been a good product line for Bristol to offer before the big change. You buy a complete rolling chassis, and then you get your design built in CAD so you can see what you are getting and can tweak it accordingly, a buck gets built and the body is coachbuilt in traditional British manner for you. Porsche and Ferrari do this, for a fee of about a million quid, but I suspect that in the real world a Bristol of your own would cost 150 to 200k and would last your lifetime.

Personally I would avoid fiberglass on any car that is intended to have a prestige element, the big trend in replicas now seems to be aluminium due to reductions in tooling costs and the wider availability of superforming for small series production as well as customer demand. This further reinforces the need to avoid fiberglass which is very much associated with kit cars. It is a bit of a false economy and it just doesn't provide a class A paint finish which is one of the other defining features of Bristols.

P

[Markus Berzborn]

I think Bristol would have done this within the limits of their possibilities if you had asked them.
For instance the body panels of the Blenheim 4 discussed here in the forum also largely differ from the standard model. Or look at the Speedster/Roadster.

And it's much easier to do on a separate chassis than with a monocoque construction.
In fact this was standard practice for luxury car manufacturers before World War II.

Regards,
Markus

[Kevin H]

As one hand built car manufacturer fails another flourishes.

Bufori

[browning l]

Originally Posted by Kevin H

As one hand built car manufacturer fails another flourishes.

Bufori

Gackkkkkk!

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by browning l

Gackkkkkk!

Bufori owners may say the same about your Bristol 603, but that's not the point.

The point is, they make hand built cars from scratch, to individual specifications using modern materials and technology. Their power train even comes from the same company as Bristol's did.

The difference is Bufori flourished as Bristol faltered, after 60+ years in business. The reasons why may be worthy of consideration.