Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

Mr Potential,

It is all a matter of money and taste, as well as risk assessment based on
availability of parts and expertise. Apart from bodywork and some
suspension bits, the Bristol (V8 ones anyway) shares lots of common cheap,
mass produced, easy to obtain new bits with relatively simple design -
effective, low stress items mostly. Even electrics are simple. In fact the
Bristol is probably the easiest of your list to own as a going concern due
to its simplicity although the Reliant will be more so when factoring in the
suspension. Bristol front and rear suspension (especially rear) can be
expensive (a couple of grand) to rebuild to like new.

Your 450 SL Merc will be terrific to own but much more costly to rebuild and
will need more expertise than a Bristol. It is also much more common (!) on
the roads but is appreciating well. There is a huge support network of
parts suppliers, body shops and dealers - but they will charge good money.
It is only a two seater unless you includethe SLC - barely a 4 seater.

The Rover is solid but of a different nature and style to either of the
first two - more old-fogey than swift understated sports (2 or 4 seater).
Parts should not be a problem considering the owner's club and numbers
produced. The Bristol is still simpler (rear suspension aside).

The Reliant is very simple and no where near the quality and style of the
Merc or the Bristol. Not my cup-of-tea.

All boils down to cost of running and owning plus what you expect / prefer.
The Bristol (V8) is pretty quick and can be made to be very fast (easily
extract 350-450bhp), is somewhat thirsty if used a lot and is not flashy or
complicated - read as inexpensive to maintain. You can upgrade a Bristol V8
with more modern stuff - like a more efficient engine and gearbox combo as
well as other "factory" or third party bits. The underlying philosophy
remains even with improved cost of ownership and driving appeal.

The best bet is to meet several people with reasonably decent cars and ask
for a poke about and test drive. As long as the suspension is in good
fettle (the only expensive bit of the mechanicals), the most costly part of
the Bristol is repairing the underlying chassis and alloy panels if
corrosion is rife.

Clyde (of V8 Buyer's guide)

Out of the 4 the 450SLC would attract me most. Even really good ones rarely go past £15k.

What about the Jensen Interceptor though???? I wouldnt go for the FF for complexities sake but a late S3 is very tempting if you can afford the juice.

The problem with owning these kind of classics is that you cant run them on a shoestring budget and it helps to have mechanical knowledge and a garage. People own these cars reasonably reliably for years buying them cheap and spending very little on them and they one day end up as sheds on fleabay. Reliant Scimitars are a good example of this although Bristols account for a fair number as well. The very few running on the roads are not just because of the low numbers originally produced - there are probably just as many languishing in garages on under covers in peoples driveways. It's a shame. I dont like giving advice which isn't asked for, but get the best you can afford. It will save you sleepless nights in the long term!

Mr Potential,

I wouldn't consider the Reliant Scimitar comparable with a Bristol. Not that there is anything wrong with Scimitar, but it's a very different car. To be honest nothing is quite like a Bristol!

The Mercedes 450 SLC has certainly stood the test of time. Probably has better build quality than a V8 Bristol. But it's much smaller than a V8 Bristol and I can't imagine it would carry four adults in the same comfort as a Bristol. Cons: Common as muck, ex pimp car.

I quite like the Rover and have toyed with the idea of buying one myself, but I would want a P5B Coupe. I don't believe they had any build quality issues. It was good enough for the Prime Minister!

Lancia Flavia coupe is a great looking car, but I don't know much about it.

Other suggestions,

BMW 2800 CS
Bentley T1
Jaguar XJ6 Coupe

There was a time you could have got a good Gordon Keeble for that money, or an Aston DBS, but not any more...

With the V8 Bristol you are paying for exclusivity and a bit of mystique. Having helped pull one apart, I personally don't think the engineering or build quality is superior to most of the other cars here. You can definitely tell they were hand made. But, if you start with a good one it would be one of the easiest to maintain.

eeerrrhhhh Kevin, what size are the 4 adults which you are carrying in comfort in a Bristol? I am on my third Bristol, but none have managed to accommodate 4 normal sized adults in comfort. 2 yes, but 4, never.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

The Jensen CV8 MKIII has the 6.75 Litre engine, is beautifully made,
looks astonishing and is a hoot to drive. It's my favourite of all
the US engined Europeans, although the Facel Vega is a pretty
amazing coachbuilt car too. The detail work in stainless steel is
very clever indeed.

Ashley

As for the SLC, on longer journeys the back seats are only suitable for children really.
Anyway, I would recommend the 500 SLC with the aluminium 5 litre engine rather than the 450 SLC.
And people needing more spaciness should consider the succeeding SEC line. Although this is an entirely different car in character - more comfort-oriented.

Regards,
Markus

Actually even better for rarity would be the 450SLC 5.0 - I think they only made a few hundred before it became the more obviously named 500SLC.

Ah, you got me there Richard, I guess I was quoting the old marketing hype!

My 411 has been off the road for the last eight years and only ever once carried adults in the back that I can remember. Not that there were any complaints, but the passengers were female and it was a short trip. I guess it depends on the height of the driver and front passenger as well.

It's all relative though. Of the cars mentioned none of them would have any more leg room that a V8 Bristol, and several would have considerably less.

The only cars I can think of with really generous room in the back have been long wheelbase versions of more modern cars.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

I had a Scimiter. Prefer the look of the earlier GTE over the later
Cologne engined model. Handles well. Enough grunt. Seats 4 at a bit of a
pinch. Downsides are that they leak around the back window. Unless fixed,
all of them overheat (there is a simple cure) I remember going to a
meeting and noticing that everybody arriving popped the bonnet for a bit
of extra ventilation as soon as they stopped! I became adept at changing
warped cylinder heads. Fibreglass body is difficult to maintain to
concours standard. I think they get tired. Last time I asked, parts were
not a problem.
Lancia Flavia: beautiful car. But the flat 4 is a bit slow. The bodies rust
terribly and electric are a nightmare. I guess that spares would be a
problem particularly in England where so few were sold. (Colin Dexter told
me that he knows absolutely nothing about cars and it was a friend who told
him that an eccentric like Morse should have a Lancia Flavia ... and that is
the car that features in the early Morse novels. The Jag which appears in
the films was purely the inspiration of the film producers.)
Rover: agree with Kevin that the coupe looks fine. Used to have an early
six cylinder which was dreadfully slow and thirsty. The V8 much better
from that point of view but it's still a big old car. Awful rust around
the wings. Handling? If you've ever been on a canal barge you'll know the
feeling!
Mercedes: I know nothing.
Other suggestions: keep with Lancia. The Gamma was a fantastic car, whether
in Berlinetta or Coupe mode. Either look great. Fantastic handling, more
than adequate performance from the 2.5 flat 4. Early ones shed cam belts but
I think the design was put right with the fuel injected models. It's the
last true Lancia. Those that followed were Fiats. Wouldn't cost a lot
either. Peter

I agree with your sentiment and I certainly wouldn't stint on maintenance or go for a poor car to save money. The cost of improving one exceeds the cost of buying a good one, with few exceptions. I have in the past bought good but not excellent old cars as daily drivers and those can be great fun so long as I ignore the urge to perfect them. I think the thing is to sell them on to someone who enjoys restoring more than driving at that point and redirect the proceeds to a better car.

I currently use a Daimler Double Six of the last generation in the long wheelbase version. This is what I call generous legroom in the back.
But still, it's problematic for people of more than 1.90 m because of the classic Jaguar roofline. I guess this is why the current XJ is considerably higher - but has lost this special appeal.

The optimum for rear seat passengers would probably be a RR Phantom (old or new) or something like that.

Regards,
Markus

Any of the LWB S-classes had very good rear legroom and they are still 'cheap as chips' for a relatively good one unless you go for the 6.9 or 6.3 variants

Well sure, the S class is fine. And relatively easy to maintain, at least over here in Germany. Spare parts are also readily available and not very expensive.
If I lived in Britain, I probably would have an S class. But I just don't like seeing the same car at every corner. They are just too common here. I think in England, it's probably the other way round - the XJ is common and the S class exclusive.
One of my neighbours has a 6.9 in very good condition with all options. But it seems he is not really able or willing to afford the maintenance. He only registered it again last year when it achieved "vintage status" (in Germany you can apply for that for cars older than 30 years, it means taxes are significantly lower then) and even so rarely uses it. Fuel consumption is really high for today's standards. Anyway, I personally prefer the 6.3 because of its classic body shape. The 6.9 is a bit too ostentatious for my taste.

Regards,
Markus

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

Markus, i live in Manchester in England and the Mercedes S-class, as well
as other models is a very common car in Manchester. The Jaguar XJ is a
rarer car here as it has a bad image, too much of an old mans car i hear
and lacks sophistication. I do like the S-class though.

Andrew

Lacks sophistication?
That's funny. I think the ride in an XJ series X300 is still excellent, concerning the comfort aspect. Certainly better than in an S class up to and including the W126 series.
For me, the Double Six was not planned as an everyday transport but then it turned out that it is so much more fun to drive than the E class (current model) that I use it very often, regardless of the fuel consumption which is twice the E class. Although the comparison is a bit unfair, as it is only the E 220.

By the way, what is the image of Bristol in Britain, i.e. for people who even heared about the marque?

Regards,
Markus

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

When i say sophistication i mean more about the statement the car makes,
rather than the technological capabilities of the car. Sorry, i should have
been clearer. I can understand the older man view of the car over here, but
i don't agree with the sheep like views to so called style in this country.
Jaguars are fine cars and like any other cars, you buy what you prefer. I
think many of our nation need to take the image views of a car a little less
seriously and just enjoy cars.

Andrew

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

Hi all -

My next project is likely to be a Maserati Quattroporte, series
III. Much more common than the Bristol in the US (what isn't?) and
"good value", in some semi-insane sense. I'll need to sell my '66
Imperial LeBaron to make room for it, so if anyone would like a
decent example of the "best" postwar Imperial, see it at
http://teamchicago.com/imperial/ . Full details provided on request,
of course.

Bob

Bristol alternatives - Alfa?
 

Interesting that Alfa doesn't seem to have featured in this thread? I
have only recently investigated with a cheapie 155 V6, seems to have
some grunt, handling, comfort and quiet, but maybe be a bit lacking in style?

Stuart

That's a nice one and still quite cheap.
I almost bought one two years ago.
I would recommend the (rarer) version with manual transmission, it's much quicker.
Or the Royale, the ultimate luxury Quattroporte (only available with automatic transmission). It even has Daimler/RR-style wooden fold-out tables in the rear.

Gruß,
Markus

But would you get a good one of either of those for GBP15k ?

Given the initial post I thought we were only considering cars in the 1960s and 70s that were comparable to a V8 Bristol. Did Alfa make anything that fitted that criteria?

I can't think of anything from Alfa that's a direct competitor, the Montreal appeals but I'd have to be completely mad to buy one :)

I do love the external shape of the Gamma Coupé but I'm not sure I'd enjoy staring at that dash board every day.

Speaking of Fiats, the 130 Coupé looks like a lovely car.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

---Quote (Originally by Kevin Howard)---
Did Alfa make anything that fitted that criteria?
---End Quote---
I can't think of anything from Alfa that's a direct competitor, the
Montreal appeals but I'd have to be completely mad to buy one :)

Hi all -

The Alfetta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Alfetta) in both
GT and saloon should be considered. I had a 1979 Sprint Veloce that
was quite nice - the same model later got 2.5 and 3.0 V-6 engines
that had good reputations, but mine was the classic DOHC 4
cylinder. It's a Giugiaro design and he signed my owner's
handbook. The car and handbook are back with it's original owner

I was at a local "French & Italian" car show yesterday and saw more
Alfettas together than I have for years - probably 10. Also 5 Facel Vegas!

I talked a bit with a Swiss owner of a Maserati Quattroporte at the
show - a near perfect example bought from eBay.

Bob

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

It's all been completely beyond me as I have a 400! I chose it
because it looked stunning and a friend went to school with the last
Sir George, so had seen the cars around for years. I normally run a
MKVI Bentley that I've rebuilt over the years and altered to suit
slightly to suit long distance touring. It's silent, exceptionally
smooth, extremely comfortable with a ride that compares favourably
with the best moderns and it's performance is similar to the 400.
Therefore the raucous, bumpy, noisy and partly developed Bristol has
been a culture shock. After a 2 year rebuild, I'm nearly finished
doing the development work that Bristol didn't!

Work has included Alfin brake drums, an anti-roll bar, a Delco Remy
distributor, more or less a 405 engine and soon an MGB clutch and
close ratio box, a brake servo and finally, correctly jetted
carburettors. Not to mention huge amounts of additional sound
deadening, new felt seals and screws to hold down all the floors etc
and the best Motor Wilton. It's no Bentley but with it's overdrive,
it'll cruise all day at 80+, it corners exceptionally well, it's heavy
to drive and it's still noisy, but pretty astonishing for a '49 car.

Modern Bristols with Chrysler engines I'm less sure about, most are a
bit aesthetically challenged to my antique tastes, but the 410 is
really quite nice, I like Sam Frost's Royal Blue one with what R-R
call St James red hide, probably Conollys Vaumol. That's the one I'd
modernise if buy another.

Ashley

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

''Bristolling''

Richard, I'm with you 100% on this one - it's in the blood!
As for explanations, it is sometimes difficult to explain the
inexplicable feeling we get for this marque.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

The 3 litre Rover suggested already, I found to make an excellent substitute
for at least the 2 litre Brizzers.
I've recently been overhauling one, to keep me occupied while I give up the
fags, and it's the first time I've been really up close to one, and many
things have surprisingly impressed me, (I'm surpressed) reminded me of my first
intimate moments with Bristols.
Set the tappets today, were left loose while running in, a right old inlet
over exhaust clusterfeck, but now the thing emulates a sewing machine, a very,
very quiet one, the distributor can actually be heard running. Now it occurs
to me that there's nothing I would want to change or modify about the Rover,
I can't say the same about the Bristol.

Best rear window opener setup I've ever seen would be late 80's 2 door
Nissan Sunny, 2 levers just behind handbrake, accessible by front or rear
occupant, operated hinged glass via cables, brilliantly simple.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

Admin note: I noticed Ken re-started this thread so I have copied across the relevant posts from the original thread which is now closed. Kevin.

--------------------------

Hi there

I had suggestions ranging from Alfetta to Bentley T1 and the talk stirred up a few ideas such as Fiat 130 but I'd also be glad to hear any other.

For avoidance of doubt, there are other threads to discuss the number of dead bodies you can fit in a 411, whether they would have survived if the rear window was easier to open and if the Detroit Mob were responsible.

regards,
Ken

I have no idea what they cost, but I'll also offer the Glas V8 (2.6 or 3 litre). Otherwise known as the "Glaserati".

Kevin, I can tell you that in Germany a good one costs more than 35,000 Euros.
But as you probably know, Glas went out of business decades ago (bought by BMW), so with no existing company backing the vehicle you really depend on marque clubs and so on if you want to drive such a car on a regular basis.

Regards,
Markus

Lovely car - BMW took them over I think, not sure they ever made RHD though.

On the subject of German rareties - perhaps a Bitter CD (again, if I could find one)

Thank you - just the thread went off topic so quickly and I'd really appreciate some opinions from people who know Bristols well.

This car is still quite affordable.

It has nice looks and solid GM mechanics, but it is really only a two-seater and it looks faster and sportier than it actually is.

I like the dashboard of the car, which is very similar to the Opel Diplomat of the period. This was a big car with the same American 5.4 litre V8 as the Bitter, intended to compete with the Mercedes S-Class. Although nowadays the model portfolio of Vauxhall and Opel is practically the same, the Diplomat had no equivalent in the Vauxhall range of the time, as far as I'm informed. Actually, the Diplomat was a rather good car (I remember it from my childhood and youth) but it did not sell because of the marque image. People who could spend that much money mostly preferred Mercedes-Benz or BMW back then.

The Bitter CD (CD stands for "Coupé Diplomat" actually) often had plush velours seats inside. Its appeal is really very much "seventies" from today's point of view.

Regards,
Markus

No problem at all. Although we stayed on topic for over 20 posts before some other things started to creep in. That's quite good for Bristol forums :)

Thinking more about this and the grand cars of the 1960s and 70s, most, if not all of them had their own character and quirks which attracted certain individuals, so it is quite difficult to make direct comparisons and offer genuine alternatives. I feel you really need to be more specific about the key selection criteria so that we can make objective suggestions.

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

Jensen CV8 is a fantastic car with real character and Bentley Turbo
Rs are as cheap as chips and a grin. Both are unique although CV8s
are less expensive to sort out.
T1 Bentleys and Shadows are sluggish, troublesome and handle
dreadfully, even with the handling kit fitted. My Shadow II was a
terminal understeerer, cost me huge sums of money and still broke down
far too often.

If you don't mind going more slowly then a good MKVI Bentley is one of
the greatest of all cars and absolutely astonishing for it's age.
75-80 mph with a 3.4 to 1 axle is an all day cruising speed and
comfort, ride and silence is as good as the better moderns.

As for big rovers, IMO the 3.5L car is a much better drive.

Ashley

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

I had a Mark VI and I thought it was a bit of a tractor. Very heavy.
But I never did much to it.

I always liked the Lancia Bs; but never did buy one. A couple of the
blokes here had one but surprisingly let them go in favour of the
Bristols. So, coming home.

Sean

Any suggestions for alternatives to a Bristol?
 

There's always euthenasia.

My current car has already tried that.