Importing parts - VAT, GST and duty

[Hydroglen]

This is off topic however......
You are making assumptions and as such bound to be wrong. Nobody is asking
for a fiddle or for vendors to be corrupt. A rather draconian
statement....It is how the paperwork is prepared that counts, and is the
issue. A part even newly made that is for a vintage car may come in at a
max of 5% duty /GST or free. If the UK seller omits pertinent info on the
paperwork we are faced with some 30% duty. In addition there can be
lengthy delays.
The UK sellers put it down as newly manufactured part, and as such comes in
under a different tariff. This is a stubborn refusal to understand our
customs laws that say.... if the new part was made for vintage use then the
tariff changes to 5% or free and home delivery.
This has been the case with most UK shipments. NEVER with shipments from
other parts of Europe or the USA. They understand the requirements and
prepare the paperwork accordingly. They clarify that it is for a vintage
car, bike, plane or whatever...An new electric fuel pump, as an example,
that you want to use on your vintage car may come in free or at 5%. If the
UK vendor omitts or refuses to acknowledge the end use you are using it on
then I end up payng more. You may think that this is a loophole to import
anything under the guise that it is for vintage use and maybe so. I can
assure you that there is not much that we need to import from the UK that is
not for vintage use.
You want to call or imply that the rest of the world is corrupt and a bunch
of fiddlers, then that is a strange choice of wording.
Since you bring up the corrupt word, I question the honesty of a system that
offers a VAT refund when leaving the UK. I and several posters have found
it virtually impossible to use or collect all your money from it.

Dorien

[Ashley James]

Dorien

I was implying that our Government was pricing Britain out of
international Markets that is all. I'm sorry you've had trouble with
Brit suppliers, but if they are shipping overseas as we do all the
time they may not know your local laws and will need to be told. It
doesn't cost them anything to state that the parts are for a Vintage
Car.

We suffer as badly from our VAT Authorities. You used to be able to
import any Historically important car into the UK for, I think 5% VAT,
but recently the rules have changed and it applies only to Pre War cars.

Ash

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Ashley James

Dorien

I was implying that our Government was pricing Britain out of
international Markets that is all.

How is that Ash? (serious question)

[Ashley James]

Kevin

There are over 50,000 people employed in the Classic car business in
the UK and there are some of the best restoration companies in the
world operating here. They rely on overseas customers because in the
main Brits don't have the money. Because of all the costs and taxes in
the UK a customer will spend almost twice as much as having the same
job done in the US, twice as much as Australia where there are very
good companies and more than twice as much as New Zealand or South
Africa. Not surprisingly Brit companies are losing work overseas. The
British government played a major part in killing off manufacturing in
the country and now it is killing the service industry.

I could elaborate, even give a history lesson, but we are too heavily
taxed over here and it is highly damaging in a Global Market IMO.

Ash

[Kevin H]

Ash, I gather you don't think the level of taxation is fair in the UK, but you won't get much sympathy from Aussies on that front (because we are probably more highly taxed than you!)

However, this is the bit I really don't get....

Originally Posted by Ashley James

The British government played a major part in killing off manufacturing in
the country and now it is killing the service industry.

How is the UK Govt is killing off these industries?

Kevin

[Hydroglen]

You need to reread my post below very carefully. Again.... you make
assumptionsm and appear unfamiliar of some basic issues.


As I said before, take it up with your Govt. They are the ones who make
such absurd laws. What reason is there to tax a part differently for a
1928 car to a 1958 car?

Presumably there is also an Act which defines "vintage"? (I didn't think
a Bristol 400 would be classed as "vintage")


I am very happy with my Government and it was my group that helped put
these laws / rules in place. There is nothing absurd about the law,
and I take this personally. As a known collector as well as being a
Consultant to the Government, I drafted (with an industry team) this law!
It was duly passed in Parliament.
I am not in the business of developing absurd laws. With this same team, we
also wrote the laws for Historic plates for the use of vehicles over 30
years old in Ontario. I chose the wording of the law "creatively" so that
although at first impression it would appear that these plates are to be
used only for use during club events, they can infact be used quite
extensively.

Our law allows duty free or a max of 5% for items used on vehicles over 25
years old. All the vehicles in my collection are over 25 years old! The
Bristol is 61 years old and over here that is vintage although the terms:
antique, vintage, classic and collectable are sometimes used incorrectly.
This means that today any pre 1984 vehicle falls under that 25 year rule.
This "1928 to 1958" is something you have come up with. No idea were you are
going with that one.

I do not expect the world to know our rules. Why would you think so? Another
erroneous assumption....my, you are a busy lad!
I EXPECT a vendor to follow my instructions TO THE LETTER on how the part is
invoiced or declared. If that vendor can't do that, then don't take my
money and ship. To do so, is dishonest, a fiddle or any other negative
adjective that fits. He does not need to know our laws because I have told
him what they are in writing.......elementary!
Of course, it does require the ability to read and respond to the customer's
request.

The term " Creative paperwork" is not necessarily connected with "fraud" as
you seem to think. In North America, April is the month we file our tax
returns ( both for individuals and Business) and there are many tax
companies and consultants that will help with filing these returns. There
are numerous legal loopholes to eliminate or reduce the amount of taxes paid
and these methods are very "creative" and yet very legal! No fraud or
corruption and the term "creative paperwork" is sometimes used.
I have even found Canadian tax officials showing me a different way of
assessing property. It was a very creative way and I pointed this out and
they smiled and basically said. " well, it is in the system so you can do
it".

I own a large Company that specializes in all forms of communication. At any
given time we have some work with our Federal Government and Provincial. Our
Company is called " The Creative Medium".........
I agree that it is a term that could be viewed in a negative manner and if
your fuel tank is always 1/2 empty then that is the way you see things. I
used it to show flexibility / creativity on the part of a supplier
interested in being of service to the client and making a profit for
himself. A win / win situation. Again reread my post below, were I used a
pump as an example.

Regarding VAT as it applies to visitors or others leaving the UK, I offer
the following thoughts:
A system that does not allow for a full and easy refund is flawed. The VAT
system mentions a full refund, but you CAN'T get a full refund, hence the
system is corrupt. You don't like the word corrupt? Then how about "grossly
misleading", highly inefficient", misleading the traveler", "false
pretences".......you pick one that you feel is more accurate.
You say a "partial refund is better than nothing". As far as I am concerned
there is NO refund. The fact that there are high administrative costs, plus
efforts on your part, means you got nothing back! Efforts on ones part means
it took you time to do something. Time is money, so pay yourself a fair wage
+ the wages or fees of the processing Company and how much did you really
get back? There could easily be a VAT office at Airports and after clearing
Security, show your invoices and receive an instant refund in cash or credit
on your credit card. Just think, it could all be done in minutes and you
would have a smile on your face and warm thoughts in your heart!

Again....reread ALL of my post at the bottom of this page.

Dorien

[Kevin H]

You're right Dorien, I am a "busy lad", so forgive me if I don't respond to every aspect of your post, I am sure our discussion is becoming tedious for others.

I will just respond to one part where you say;
"This "1928 to 1958" is something you have come up with. No idea were you are going with that one.

I said: "What reason is there to tax a part differently for a
1928 car to a 1958 car?"

The dates were random to some extent, but 1928 date does fall into the period which the British classify as "Vintage" where cars are concerned.

1958 is just some random date at which a car is still old, but not Vintage, in the eyes of the British that is. My point being, why treat cars from these years differently for taxation purposes?

I now see that your law doesn't.

The British view the Vintage car period as 1919-1930.

As a parting suggestion, if you have so much influence over Canadian law, why not simply do what we do here in Australia and make any personal import less that $1000 in value duty/GST free. Then it wouldn't matter what those annoying British vendors put on their paperwork!

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

This is off topic however......
You want to call or imply that the rest of the world is corrupt and a bunch
of fiddlers, then that is a strange choice of wording.

Dorien, my comment was in response to your earlier post in which you said: "Fortunately vintage parts coming in from the USA and other countries arrive with little or no GST ( duty equivalent) as the senders have learnt to be creative with their paperwork..."

The term "Creative paperwork" is a common euphemism for "fraud", so I think the word "corrupt" is quite apt.

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

A part even newly made that is for a vintage car may come in at a
max of 5% duty /GST or free. If the UK seller omits pertinent info on the
paperwork we are faced with some 30% duty. In addition there can be
lengthy delays.

As I said before, take it up with your Govt. They are the ones who make such absurd laws. What reason is there to tax a part differently for a 1928 car to a 1958 car?

Presumably there is also an Act which defines "vintage"? (I didn't think a Bristol 400 would be classed as "vintage")

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

The UK sellers put it down as newly manufactured part,

which it is ...

and as such comes in under a different tariff. This is a stubborn refusal to understand our customs laws that say.... if the new part was made for vintage use then the tariff changes to 5% or free and home delivery.

Dorien, you are joking aren't you? Surely you do not really expect the rest of the World to keep themselves aware of Canadian customs & excise laws?

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

Since you bring up the corrupt word, I question the honesty of a system that offers a VAT refund when leaving the UK. I and several posters have found it virtually impossible to use or collect all your money from it

I think the main complainant was me. However, while it is hard to get all of the VAT back, getting part of it is better than nothing and I do understand that there are some admin costs involved. It's just that certain retailers or VAT refund processing companies have admin fees which I consider to be too high. But because this only affects people who have personally bought goods themselves while visiting the UK, it is not something that affects many people on a regular basis. The UK Govt did not conceive a dishonest scheme as you suggest.

On the other hand I often buy clothing by mail order from the UK and I never pay a penny of VAT, and there are no processing costs involved. Nor is there any duty payable at this end unless the order exceeds AUD$1000. I usually place orders of a few hundred pounds, so even after taking the postage costs into consideration, it is actually cheaper for me to buy items from the UK from Australia than it would be if I bought them in person in the UK.