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09-10-09, 05:46 PM
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This allows the nose of the vehicle to rise just as the wheels try to rise, giving some relief to the shockers. Your (Setright's) technique means that the suspension is already compressed, at a time when it is supposed to start doing it's work, putting a greater strain on the shocker turrets. Another technique, often used by chauffeurs on driveways with those short high type of bump, is to angle the vehicle so that you traverse them one wheel at a time, this is of course doen very slowly and is not a normal roadway method. 
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10-10-09, 01:09 PM
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I think we need to be very proactive - that developing philosophies along lines similar to Brett's thoughts if we are going to survive in a future as older car custodians. Particularly so as prevailing opinions could well become increasingly hostile towards those of us with an appreciation for any classic car.
John Keighley.
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10-10-09, 05:19 PM
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It is possible that the technique you have described is in fact the one employed by LJKS; I received the information second hand, as the saying goes, by an individual who recalled reading a piece that Setright authored. I have not seen the article. The method that I described does seem to be effective but I will nevertheless experiment with your method. Thank you for your imput!
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10-10-09, 05:25 PM
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10-10-09, 06:40 PM
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LJK Setright
I'm afraid I can't name his inaccuracies though I've been reading them on and off since the sixties, I was so cross about something he said of the BMW R100RS that I phoned him and told him so. He just never took the trouble to get things right and often regurgitated old wives tales that just weren't correct. Adam Kimberley, who was a friend towards the end agreed, though he greatly admired the LJKS writing style.
Last edited by Ashley James; 10-10-09 at 08:08 PM.
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10-10-09, 08:00 PM
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LJK Setright
There is a mlVI Bentley in the street about a half a mile from me
which is completely silent as it hasn't moved for at least six months. It has a black paint job done with a house brush and some dulux. I have to say it looks like a hearse. Paul
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10-10-09, 08:20 PM
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The owner of a local factory bought one in the Forties and kept it till he died in the early seventies, I remember being stunned by it as a child and seeing around locally for years, eventually it became an ambition to own one. I've had mine since '98 and driven backwards and forwards to France in it numerous times including doing a Louis Vuitton in Paris and also all over the UK. It is so comfortable, quiet and smooth that all it lacks is air conditioning. Now I run a website providing technical support and I've made contact with other owners the world over. Most experts agree that it is the second and last time R-R made the best car in the world. So I'm sorry you don't like it, but hope that I've persuaded you to feel more kindly towards it from now on. After all, Bristols are not to everyone's taste. Ash
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10-10-09, 08:45 PM
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LJK Setright
Paul what's wrong with a car looking like a hearse? Many people are dying
for a ride in one! Richard
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10-10-09, 10:14 PM
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LJK Setright
Not a criticism of the Bentley, but one of the things I do like
about Bristols (of the metal variety) is that nobody would ever accuse you of drivaing a wedding car which is the case with some classics. I did see an absolutely stunning Continental R last night in London though
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11-10-09, 01:26 AM
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Frankly, if you are going to slag off a widely published an author who is deceased and cannot defend himself, the very least you can do is list the myriad inaccuracies that you claim he churned out! Other than History of the World's Motorcycles, which particular other Setright books do you think are full of mistakes? Kevin PS. Who is Adam Kimberley and why should we care if he agrees with you?
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11-10-09, 07:53 AM
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Of course the Bentley Mark VI is a very nice car.
I just don't get the point why it should be the last acceptable Bentley and why the succeeding line (S1-S3) should be any worse. Regards, Markus
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11-10-09, 09:46 AM
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LJK Setright
Kevin
As you might imagine I don't keep books that are inaccurate and can't remember ones I've ditched, but Setright has always been a bête noir of mine because he was so careless with the facts. I think he describes one race in a Bristol that was finished either with a hole in the sump or a rod through a block. Very unlikely I'd have thought. I've just pulled up a book called The Designers by LJKS that is full of errors too. Or you could contrast early Bristol history in From Chain Drive To Turbocharger by DSJ with LJKS's efforts. I should add that I'm not alone with this view and I'm very surprised that you were unaware of what is quite widely accepted. Unfortunately your Forum removes all links to other sites and thus prevents me introducing you to Adam Kimberley's musings. He is a Consultant Anaesthetist, a Member of the Royal Institution and was a long standing friend of LJKS, where I barely knew him through an association with Steve Cropley and other members of Car magazine. Adam knew him until he died and was very aware of his prejudices and his intellect. Lansdowne Although you may not see Bristols as wedding cars I often get sent pictures of them decked out with ribbons, just as I do the occasional MKVI, usually from teasing chums. I'm comforted by the knowledge that the Hummer has overtaken both in popularity for this particular job. Kevin My websites get up to one thousand uniques a day and Adam's articles are extremely popular, so why not track them down instead of deriding him. He's a superb photographer as well. Ash
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11-10-09, 11:05 AM
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Ash,
First of all, how have I "derided" Adam Kimberley, I simply asked who he was and why we should care that he agrees with you about Setright. Not unreasonable questions. I don't mean to be disrespectful to the chap, but I don't really see how being a Consultant Anaesthetist and a Member of the Royal Institution qualifies him as a literary critic. You compare Jenks' From Chain Drive To Turbocharger with LJKS's books, presumably with specific reference to the Bristol related sections of the former book. Jenk's was telling a story from the Aldington's perspective and LJKS was telling the same story from the Bristol/White family perspective. Both authors were writing largely based on what they had been told by the respective families. I find it interesting that the two stories differ, but it's hardly surprising that they do and who is to say which version is the truth? As for The Designers, it may not be one of LJKS' more applauded works, but as you have a copy this would be a good opportunity for you to be more specific about the errors you say it if full of. Perhaps you could give us half a dozen for starters? Kevin (aka Bamber) PS. For the record, this site does not remove all links to other sites, as is clear from numerous posts in this thread. Click here if you wish to read my policy on linking to other sites.
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11-10-09, 12:32 PM
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LJK Setright
Having had a Mk VI and an S1, I found I was happier with the Mk VI. The
gearbox is a delight and the car has a certain "feel" to it that others are missing. The vintage look has its own appeal. I did, however, prefer the S1 at high speed. Dorien
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11-10-09, 04:54 PM
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If you read some of Adam's stuff you'll find that he's exceptionally gifted and writes very much in the style of Setright although with more humour. However he's not trying to be a literary critic, his only opinion is that Setright was a brilliant writer, but not necessarily accurate. This is a fairly widespread view that you could bear in mind for the future if historical accuracy interests you. P & A Wood is the World Heritage Rolls-Royce dealer and Andrew is one of many who feel that the '46-'55 cars are the best the company made after the Silver Ghost. The later cars are just as beautifully made, but more complex, more troublesome and above all, not very nice to drive and very much less economical. They tend to wander at speed which is a nuisance for the driver, but they are extraordinarily comfortable to ride in. R-R's greatest leader was Lord Hives and before the war he was tasked with making the hitherto unprofitable car division profitable and he was friends with the Wilkes brothers of Rover. His influence saw to it that the MKVI and derivatives were as simple and sensible, but still of the highest quality, as could be made. The Pre War Wraith was the first of his incarnations and it was a great deal better than its predecessors. The Phantom 3 was incredibly troublesome and lost the company a great deal of money — hence the need for policy change. They were still carrying out guarantee work after the war to avoid adverse publicity! Post '45 War Hives main concern was to keep 64,000 people in a job of which only 2000 were making cars, so he left it to Grylls who started back in the direction of P3s again. He also made cars that were not suited to British roads, whereas the EPWs were sold as "Silent Sports Cars" and drove exceedingly well. Capt Eyston and Raymond Mays were amongst their champions as was Wolf Barnato and his daughter Diana. The problem with any old R-R is that it is so different from any other car in so many ways, especially brakes, suspension and steering, that it is rare to find one that drives as it should. If you did, you'd see immediately why '46-55 cars are so revered. I should point out that I'm expressing widely held views rather than just my own opinion and that this is explained on my websites Ashley PS. I'll leave it to Kevin to decide whether or not a link to my websites is permissible, although I'd have thought any links to anything could only be a benefit, for me that is what makes the internet so exciting. PPS. IMO Jenks sticks to facts and avoids hearsay.
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11-10-09, 09:26 PM
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I'm asking only that you provide some examples of the errors in this book, surely that's not too much to ask given the accusations you make and the fact that Setright isn't around to defend himself. Quote:
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12-10-09, 09:00 AM
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LJK Setright
Kevin
I think you are beating this one to death for no real purpose. I've opined that Setright wasn't always historically accurate and that it annoyed me and you've stated that he admitted there were mistakes in his Bristol book. Therefore I think it's reasonable to assume that his other books have mistakes in them too. I don't know if any of you read the Automobile which is an excellent Magazine for historical accuracy, but a couple of months ago Jonathan Wood (an excellent Historian and writer) did a piece on the 400 and, as he usually does, introduced new and verified information to the story. He showed that Bristol paid BMW for the drawings and he better explained the contrasts between AFN and Bristol, so he filled in a few holes where Jenks had stuck to facts and avoided politics and Setright had reported hearsay. It's an interesting story and worth getting right and Jonathan has done that. Over the last nine years I've paid thousands of pounds out to provide properly designed websites that contain verifiable information not readily available anywhere else simply because I had trouble finding it when I was rebuilding my cars. I've used some of the most authoritative sources in the world and where possible relied on company records. I've also published stories from owners explaining what their cars mean to them, I've published stories of old car events from all over the world and for the last six years I've organised trips to France that have produced visitors from all over the world, often from Australia and including David Neely (one time Editor of the OZ RROC bulletin and noted R-R Historian) and Paul Samuels with his wife who I'm sure you all know. I think it is fair to say that my sites are now widely regarded as the best resource for the cars they cover. As I previously stated my webstats show up to 1000 unique visitors a day, which I think remarkable considering the number of cars registered with the clubs. I derive no gain of any sort beyond friendship for all this either. Therefore if I provided a link to them in response to someone asking technical questions, needing specialist help or suppliers on your Forum, it is because it is the best and most helpful way to answer their question. It is not spamming! The only reason any of this functions is because we all love our old cars, we like making friends and we want to help one and other. In my view links to anything and everything are are part of this as well as a vital source of knowledge and helpful to us all. They are not spam either! Ashley
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12-10-09, 10:17 AM
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If we were having a discussion in a pub with a handful of people present I would challenge you to "put up or shut up", but we're not, we're committing opinions to public record on a web site, which is very different. For your convenience, in my previous post I quoted precisely what you said, which was, "I've just pulled up a book called The Designers by LJKS that is full of errors too". Now I have invited you to point out just half a dozen errors in that book. In other words, simply back up your argument with some facts. If you are unable or unwilling to do so then I feel you should retract your previous statements and apologise to Setright. Your call. Kevin
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