LJK Setright

[Ashley James]

Blenheim Boy
I think reading too many car magazines may be your problem. They are
more advertorial and subjective opinion than useful.
Depending on your interests may I suggest that you turn your
attentions to material written by Michael Worthington-Williams,
Jonathan Wood, David Burgess-Wise, Michael Ware, Tom Clarke, Denis
Jenkinson and many more and then you will begin to understand the
points I've made. The Automobile is a magazine that is excellent for
historical information too.
Setright's writings are well constructed, sometimes amusing, sometimes
technically incorrect, often anecdotal, often not focussed and
sometimes just embellishments of "received wisdom". Nothing wrong with
that, it's a good read, though you shouldn't need my help to see it.
The various technical descriptions of his that you allude to will be
regurgitations of Press handouts from manaufacturers that a lawyer may
not be able to appraise adequately.
I must say that the zeal with which you have pursued me with on this
one does rather place you in Fanboy territority. It's not life or
death matter, I've just expressed an opinion that is fairly
widespread, but at odds with you and Kevin.
As I said before you can take it on board or ignore it, but don't
expect me waste time trawling through the two Setright books I have to
provide support what I've said.
I suppose there's little point in suggesting you move the discussion
on. I've run my race.
Ashley

[TLF799R]

Originally Posted by Ashley James

Blenheim Boy
I must say that the zeal with which you have pursued me with on this
one does rather place you in Fanboy territority. It's not life or
death matter, I've just expressed an opinion that is fairly
widespread, but at odds with you and Kevin.
As I said before you can take it on board or ignore it, but don't
expect me waste time trawling through the two Setright books I have to
provide support what I've said.
I suppose there's little point in suggesting you move the discussion
on. I've run my race.
Ashley

That's it - I can't bear it any longer! Ashley for Gods sake can you come up with even one example...

I have never read the much lauded Setright so I have no axe to grind here. You can convert me to either viewpoint! Although I did see a picture once of his rather fine leather dashboard... so he appears to have had good taste.

What I find very disturbing is that I am put in the unheard of position of agreeing with Kevin. I am worried by your "everyone agrees that he got lots wrong" kind of comments. They smack of the sort of unsubstantiated urban myth that Clarkson spouts while pocketing huge amounts of the licence fee payers' cash.

Come on Ashley - convince me!

Philippa

[Blenheim Boy]

Ashley,

I had to laugh at the Setright 'Fanboy' comment. Does this make you the LJKS 'Anti-Fanboy'? Do you often revert to mild insult when anyone disagrees with you?

It was you who started the LJKS criticism, yet you seem surprised at the resistance this has met, largely because you refuse to bother providing evidence. We must roll over and accept your wonky opinion. Yes, this has become a pointless discussion because you just keep repeating yourself. You refuse to back-up your opinion, merely revert to hearsay/old wives tales like 'an opinion that is fairly widespread'. Yet hearsay is exactly what you accuse LJKS of reverting to!

For the record, I'm tired of car magazines because the reporters tend to obsess over steering feel (without defining what they deem it to be) and lift-off oversteer (a questionable quality in a car). They like ‘drivers cars’, yet they complain that driver-centric machines like the Caterham 7 are ‘too raw’.

I think your acquaintance Steve Cropley might take exception to your dismissal of car magazines. In defence of the magazines, I don't agree that they merely rewrite the public relations spiel; this is usually perpetrated by local newspapers who appease the local car dealerships. Check out the motoring pages of the Stroud News & Journal as an example.

Using his enthusiasm for 4WS as an example, are you dismissing Setright's opinion of it as nothing but him rewriting PR? Simply because you do not agree with his opinion of 4WS?

BB

[Ashley James]

Under a picture of a Rolls-Royce:
The best of Bristish? Barker coachwork on Rolls-Royce chassis was no worse, no more opulent or irrelevant, than that of other famous London Coachbuilders. It revealed the British as a nation almost as immune as the Swiss to the real joys of motoring. A quote from LJKS, very funny and not very accurate because they also made bodies for some of our most sporting and excellent cars.

Setright's comment might have been said by Clarkson who probably talks the most amusing rubbish on the £4.6 Billion a year BBC. After two other excellent programs; East Enders and Strictly Come Dancing, Top Gear is the BBC's most popular and the one that earns them the most money overseas, which is good because otherwise we'd be forced to pay even more for that smug narcissistic hegemony.(I have an excellent article from the Times to back that statement)

Trust you to pick on me again Philippa and insult my favourite BBC program. Last time you said the 400 was ugly from the front!

Clarkson is a God if only because Polly Toynbee hates him and he hates Billy Oddy. I haven't insulted the other two top programs and I don't think you should either if you haven't watched them. Sorry I've relented. Didn't an American senator once say that no one ever went broke by underestimating the tastes of the general public. Sadly in this instance they might. The BBC's blatantly populist, regardless of expense competition with the commercial channels has cost them dear.

If a copy of the Stroud News and Journal appears in this house it is immediately transferred to the underside of either the 400 or more particularly the Bentley because it's One-Shot is the most incontinent.

[Rubbond]

Dear all,
I'm wondering how one would go about unsubscibing to this discussion, not
being a computer buff.
Maybe the moderator can somehow help, or might he already be involved?
I hope I didn't start it all with my very much "tounge-in-cheek" comment
about the quirky 4 WS on my 1966 bulldozer.
No doubt I will have been beaten to this comment by someone more adapt in
typing.
With best regards,
A slightly worried Andrew (but I will lose no sleep about this).

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by rubbond

Dear all,
I'm wondering how one would go about unsubscibing to this discussion, not being a computer buff.

See link at bottom of every email you receive, however it will unsubscribe you from the "Other topics of interest" forum.

You can only unsubscribe from a specific thread if you are subscribed that way in the first place, but you are probably subscribed to the "Other topics of interest" forum, rather than the individual thread. I hope that makes sense!

Alternatively you can use the DEL key

[Blenheim Boy]

Ashley,

At last! It seems we are finally meeting eye-to-eye...

I think that you have taken Setright's comment out of context; he appears to be commenting on coachwork that Barker provided for a particular Rolls-Royce. He is not dismissing Barker’s work on other chassis. I imagine the era of motoring in question here is the early 20th century, when many moneyed folk chose regal, albeit clumsy bodies - ‘gin palaces’ you could say - to go on their chosen chassis, with no thought given to aerodynamics, centre of gravity, vehicle handling and so on.

I find Clarkson to be a very entertaining writer/broadcaster. He does not claim to be any kind of historian. His television persona is more that of an entertainer, for better or worse. I prefer his writing; he does not ‘play to the gallery’ in print, like he does on the TV. However, I’m no great fan of Top Gear. It can be quite entertaining at times but as a motoring programme, it leaves a lot to be desired. Indeed, I believe James May has referred to it, tongue-in-cheek, as a ‘car-based light entertainment programme’.

BB

[lansdownplace]

Don't stop now, it's like watching a row at the bar over the finer
points of Cheekbottoms Crusty Old Ale versus Hornsnots 4X after
everyones had a skinful. Fantastic to watch