LJK Setright
 

This being a Bristol forum, I imagine many members are familiar with the late LJK Setright. Here are a number of articles that he authored which I have found on the Internet. If there is enough interest, I have more to share.

Lotus Europa
setrighteuropa

Honda CBX1000
The new Cafe (racer) Society: LJK Setright, Browning, and the 1980 CBX

Chrysler Crossfire (LJKS offered a refreshingly different opinion, when every other 'expert' pundit did nothing but slate this car);
LJK Setright: American styling - but a Merc by any other name - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

Four wheel steering;
LJK Setright: What happened to four-wheel active steering? - Features, Motoring - The Independent

I would be grateful if anyone has more to share on Setright and the Honda Prelude w/four wheel steering.

LJK Setright
 

Haven't read the article, though LJK owned a Prelude with 4WS and
loved it. By then he couldn't afford more exotic machinery like
another Bristol.

He had a regular column in CAR for about 20 plus years (I think) and
I enjoyed reading his column before others. It was his love of
Bristol cars that got me going in the first place.

Clyde (406 Alpine Special - still underway - slowly)

LJK Setright
 

I had a Lotus Europa in the 1970's - same colour in fact.
Stuck like glue to the road but if you parked next to a curb (even as a 20
something year old) you just couldn't climb out of it!
All GRP and God forbid what could happen when re-fueling when the exhaust
was still hot!
Not for me I'm afraid.
In general I prefer coupés to open cars, but not that one!
I'm afraid I didn't even bother to open the Honda and Chrysler links. Sorry
about that if I offend anyone.
Andrew.

LJK Setright
 

I happen to have a 1966 Werklust (8.5 MT) wheel loader with 4 wheel drive
and 4 wheel steering. Worth more for scrap iron than as a vehicle.
Sometimes the wheels work in pairs, but not always!
Great if it works, but if the hydraulic pressure is not up to par, you end
up pushing cow sheds down sideways.
If 4 wheel steering were a good idea, wouldn't they use this in Formula 1,
instead of just on 60 foot trucks?
I do remember way back a 6-wheeled Formula 1 car (and even a Range Rover I
think?). But just a fad I think.
Andrew.

I am very cynical of the link between road car and racer. Admittedly, modern ice-racers use 4WS, like those in the Andros Trophy. But I don't think F1 is a good barometer. A lot of good ideas have been scuppered because of F1's legislators, such as the Chaparral 2J ground effect car.

Would the public take 4WS more seriously if F1 cars used it? Likely, but for all the wrong reasons; because an F1 car is generally perceived as superior to anything else on four wheels - despite the fact that it is a 'car' in only the loosest sense - the public would simply accept it as a good idea without analysing the benefits.

I think Honda should have been braver and fitted 4WS to more of their cars, not just top-of-the-range Preludes. I imagine the accountants got in the way. Manufacturers don't need to ask customers if they would like a more reliable car, it is simply make it more reliable, because that is expected. And they should not have to ask customers whether they would like a more agile, superior handling car; it should simply go without saying.

Why was/is 4WS not commonplace in every road car? Extra cost is likely the bottom line. Honda have a lot of patents on 4WS, so other manufacturers would have to develop their own system or pay royalties to a Honda and use their 4WS. The public’s imagination was captured by four wheel drive because they could see the benefits with their eyes, whether it was Land Rover off-roading, or an Audi Quattro winning rallies; consequently, four wheel drive systems of varying quality were offered in all kinds of cars in the 1980s, to dubious advantage.

Despite the extra engineering costs, manufacturers pushed 4WD to the fore in road cars because they knew it was a selling point; why have a front wheel drive Cavalier, when sir can have a 4WD Cavalier from Vauxhall? That's two more wheels driven than the Jones' Ford Sierra next door! Never mind that the Cavalier's traction will only ever be tested by standing water, which the wider, sportier tyres of the 4WD model will be sorely tested by. And maybe Sir will notice that his clutch does not have the lifespan of Jones' two wheel drive Sierra.

Four wheel steering did not undergo this unpleasant phase, but then neither does it enjoy the notoriety that four wheel drive enjoys to this day.

Four wheel steering is easier to feel in action than see in action. On that basis, it’s a wonder anti-lock brakes ever got off the ground - which is ironic, given its avaition heritage - because once behind the wheel, the driver can only feel them in action, not see.

I think the Prelude w/4WS, is a massively under appreciated car. Try one for yourself and experience the benefits!

LJK Setright
 

Take a look at the wiki on 4WS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering

Although not comprehensive I can also tell you about Porsche 928 with
its Weissach rear axle with passive rear steer. http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering

Having owned a 928 for more than a decade I can vouch for the balance
and security a passive rear steer provides.

Clyde

LJK Setright
 

I think 4WS was present on lots of cars including Citroen a few
years ago, but like all these ideas, I'd guess it was dropped
because cars cornered better without it. My son had a couple of
Preludes, the later and uglier one with 230 BHP and needing the most
expensive petrol. It was extremely fast with a Brutal ride, so easy
to why Setright saws connections with his 2 Litre Bristols.

Ashley

Hi
I don't know how LGV 4WS compares to the Prelude but I understand that the Honda system actually had 2 phases of steering.
Slight input such as used when changing lanes to overtake resulted in front and rear wheels twisting in the same direction which kept the vehicle pointing straight down the road, whereas greater steering input changed the rear wheel lock to the opposite of the front wheels.

I recently saw a video of a heavy lift artic climbing Berridale, carrying a long girder, and using a remote rear dolly with RWS; it was barely able to get round the tight hairpin and looked as if it would have been better with one of the banksman steered dollies.

That pretty much sums up it up. The Prelude reacts entirely to the amount of steering lock applied.

Thank you for sharing your experiences of the 928. I'm a great admirer of them.

Passive rear steer is built into all modern cars. Semi-trailing arms and live axles, characteristically, generate passive rear steer. Other suspension systems achieve passive rear steer via their suspension geometry.

Citroen's brilliant Activa prototype used four wheel steering; Citroën Activa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. To my knowledge, they did not utilise 4WS in a production car.

May I ask, what do you mean by 'cars cornered better without it'? This comment crosses me as a tad ignorant.

I respect that you have personal experience of Preludes, though you have not stated whether they were 4WS models. Perhaps your son's final Prelude (the 'ugly' as you referred to it) had the optional 17in wheels? Mine has 16in wheels and the ride is quite acceptable. The car runs on regular unleaded; if your son's car was a 'grey import' car, intended specifically for the Japanese market, then it would likely use super unleaded.

LJK Setright
 

My son's second Prelude was a Jap import.
Some years ago a number of cars were sold with four wheel steering and
none claim it now, presumably because manufacturers have found they
can do better without.
I have owned quite a few Citroens over the years and have found that
although some were a bit noisy, they were much more relaxing for long
trips than bumpier German cars. I have a friend who has a 420 BHP Audi
Estate for instance and he prefers his wife's 2 Litre Diesel because
the ride on his is so harsh.
I don't think I'm being ignorant but do consider that you're more
tolerant of harsh rides than I am.
Ash

Ash, I see you live near Stroud. Do I too, so come and take a drive in my Preludes and experience the beauty and brilliance of 4WS!

What I took exception to was;
"I'd guess it was dropped because cars cornered better without it."

I think this is a rather vague assumption that I would kindly ask you to reconsider! On what grounds is 2WS superior to 4WS? I recommend Setright's article on 4WS to understand its superiority.

I do not question your tolerances on ride quality; what I may consider an acceptable level of comfort might be unacceptable to you. Ride quality is a matter of preference. Indeed, some Bristol cars have been considered to have a rather firm ride for a ‘luxury’ car; though that is only relevant if you consider the Bristol to be a mere ‘luxury’ car.

I believe manufacturers rarely bother with 4WS now because they know they can get away without it, saving resources/finances for other things. If The Celebrated Man In The Street was more aware of the benefits of 4WS he may well have come to demand it, just as he now expects his car to have power steering, anti-lock brakes, alloy wheels and air conditioning.

4WS is still in use in passenger cars. BMW’s interest in 4WS has resurfaced and can be found in certain versions of the 7 Series. Nissan offer it on a number of their American-market cars, under the Infiniti brand. And courtesy of Nissan, Renault can provide the Laguna with 4WS; but they repeat Honda’s mistake and only fit it to the top-of-the-range model. And despite their authority on 4WS in a passenger car, Honda no longer markets a single 4WS car.

LJK Setright
 

Blenheim Boy

I think you're taking this all rather seriously, cars are cars are
cars and even Formula One, which has to be the dullest and most self
important sport on the planet, shows that they are sabotaged by
traffic jams. If you want fun get a motorbike and if you want proper
motorsport watch Moto GP, where you'll see real skill.

Cars keep improving and each new model is usually better than its
predecessor. Porsche, Ferrari and the Honda S2000 don't have 4WS now,
so I think it's reasonable to conclude that, apart from the odd Limo
or Renault, most companies (American Fire Engines excluded!) have
found they do better without.

LJKS was a brilliant writer and a friend of Dr Adam Kimberley who
writes for my websites and nursed him towards the end. The styles are
similar but Adam is more amusing IMO. He wasn't very technical and he
was often inaccurate, so I think it's better to assume that he liked
revvy motorcars that he could throw around, though where he did that
I'm not sure, round here we're lucky to get over the statutory 37 mph
dictated by today's sanctimonious motorist who is at the front of most
queues.

Yours without 4WS and preferring a softer ride.

Ash

Citroen did have a form of 4WS on the ZX. It wasn't a complex hydraulic system but a pretty clever nonetheless independent compliant system which allowed the wheels to pivot slightly when going round corners. I think it worked quite well. Not sure if they use a form of it on their new cars.

I don't think cars have it nowadays because conventional handling and suspension systems have just become sophisticated enough to negate the need for it. Also the complexity makes it very expensive to repair when it goes wrong.
It would be interesting to see what percentage of people actually tick the hydractive option for the new C5 these days.

What you are describing is passive rear wheel steering. The rear suspension reacts to the cornering forces being placed upon it. This is a reaction, a 'secondary action'. 4WS is also known as active steering and for good reason because, being 'active', it acts rather than reacts. The rear does not fall into line with the front, instead the 4WS car steers as one; a primary action, working all of its own accord, rather than on second hand information.

All modern cars use some system of passive rear wheel steering. Some even use CV joints in the rear suspension, even if there is no drive to the rear wheels. And yes, it seems that the majority of manufacturers are satisfied enough with passive rear wheel steering to forego 4WS.

Ash,

Well, if you think I'm taking it all too seriously, then I will concede that 4WS was not a commercial success... but that does not diminish its brilliance.

By and large, manufacturers are satisfied with passive rear wheel steering and, most significantly, so are their customers.

I posted a link to an LJKS article on 4WS and in your initial and subsequent replies, you have questioned its integrity. I am compelled to reply, in good faith, with the wish of raising awareness of the qualities of 4WS.

If you don't care for 4WS, OK. Personally, I don't care for motorbikes. Now, you are welcome to write a reply telling me how I'm missing out, how I'm ignorant to the joys of bikes, etc. And I will read your message, take your comments on board and perhaps reconsider my views.

However, imagine I was to write a message saying; "Hey, how about those motorbikes? Bit impractical, eh? Rather dangerous, bikers must be mad! They never caught on like cars did they? Where does the shopping go?". It's likely you would be tempted to reply and point out that all of those comments are very, very ill-considered!

So when an individual makes vague, inaccurate comments like 'cars corner better without 4WS', without presenting any kind of evidence, let alone a single reason as to why and how, then I am compelled to reply with my objection.

I'm assuming that you own, or have owned, a Bristol. And perhaps, in your time as an owner, you have had to take issue with some ignorant - probably a young motoring journalist - who has questioned the integrity of a Bristol, simply because it employs a live axle or a separate chassis and because their beloved bloody Ferrari uses neither, the Bristol must be nonsense.

Please take my replies in good faith. My hope is that if anyone else actually cares, they may learn something new about 4WS and cars in general.

Thank you for bringing Dr Adam Kimberly to my attention.

I find the 'sanctimonious motorist who is at the front of most
queues' is usually employing a Vauxhall Corsa and they continue to do 37mph when they traverse a '30' zone. Lane discipline, use of mirrors and indicators is also beyond their abilities. Their obliviousness is infuriating.

BB

Complexity? '87/'91 Preludes steer their tails with a second steering rack. The later models did it via a black box. Double wishbone suspension and disc brakes all 'round too.

If only Honda had put active 4WS to use in the ever-popular Civic...

OK, back to LJKS...
This is well worth taking a look at, lots of Setright's writing is quoted here;
RobiNZ Personal Blog: LJK Setright - Goodbye to a Genius

Some Setright titles. I strongly recommend Drive On!;
http://www.librarything.com/author/setrightljk

Articles for The Independent;

LJK Setright: All that glisters: decoration to deceive the eye - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LKJ Setright: An entry-level roadster for the Smart set - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

Surely the critical factor that governs the cornering/handling of a motor car is its weight and all of it's suspension and steering, not 4WS alone. Unless you've performed experiments to show that it makes a more significant, quantifiable difference, all you can do is express an opinion that may be incorrect, especially as it is no longer used in the form that you enthuse over.

For example a Caterham has its origins in the Lotus 7 that was designed in the fifties and yet it produces better track times, without 4WS, than modern Porsche's and various other heavier modern cars. It also accelerates more quickly with a less powerful engine.

If you search my name and Bristol, you'll find I do have a 400. It was the one they used to commemorate 60 years of the Goodwood Circuit. You'll also find stuff written by Dr APS Kimberley that you may find amusing.

Ash

Ash,

Performed experiments? That is exactly what the car manufacturers did, especially Honda. Why would they market 4WS if they found it did nothing but degenerate the quality of a car's cornering ability? The problem was that few customers understood the benefits. Four wheel drive and anti-lock brakes have endured similar ignorance; both were fitted to the 1966-1971 Jensen FF, a technological fanfare that was also a commercial failure (just over 300 built). Customers were ignorant to the benefits and bought the Interceptor instead (approx. 6400 built!).

4WS may achieve greater understanding by the public in the future, just as 4WD and ABS eventually found acceptance. It may be something other than a car that breaks the barrier. Shopping trolleys utilise 4WS after all! Thankfully, my beloved Preludes do not handle like one...

Just take a look at improved turning circles and cornering speeds to find proof of 4WS’s superiority. There was one car magazine in the US that, in 1987, claimed the Prelude 4WS was the fastest road car they had ever slalomed, faster than the contemporary 911, Corvette, 328 GTB. I imagine the Caterham 7 would have been even faster if they had trialled it but I will come to why in a moment.

Away from the world of facts and figures, in terms of feel, I would argue that 4WS makes for a sportier, safer, more responsive drive.

Another comparison would be to take two versions of one model of car (two Preludes, two Lagunas, or two 300ZXs), where one has 4WS, one does not and drive them back to back for a period of time.

Regarding the brilliant, evergreen Caterham 7 then; yes, is so very potent because it is lightweight, has a low centre of gravity and the suspension is tuned for maximum roadholding. No regular road car can compete with that, but then Colin Chapman’s design has never had to concern itself with space for more than one passenger, a luggage compartment, weatherproofing, crash protection, and so on. Perhaps one would be better off with a motorbike?

Obviously, a Prelude 4WS would never lap a Caterham 7 on racing circuit, simply because its mass is greater and there will be greater compliance in the suspension; it is a mere ‘road car’ after all!

The power-to-weight ratio issue is fascinating. Bugatti recently discovered that one of their classic, 1930s GP cars (I forget which one) could cover a hillclimb sprint circuit faster than the current Veyron. I presume that is because despite having 1000bhp, the modern car weighs two tonnes.

In addition to that, I can recall attending a historic car race at Castle Coombe several years ago, where a Lotus Elan Sprint and a Ford Mustang GT competed for the lead; the American had the power advantage, but the Brit was so light that it was the Ford’s superior under braking and when cornering. And the Lotus’ power-to-weight ratio also ensured that it did not lose out under acceleration either.

Would 4WS improve something like a Caterham 7? I would argue with an emphatic ‘Yes!’ but I cannot prove it, because to my knowledge it has not been attempted. One can only speculate on the end product. I am not in the financial position to experiment with the concept.

BB

LJK Setright
 

Does Formula 1 use 4WS?

No. It is not allowed in Formula 1, as far as I'm informed.

Kind regards,
Markus

No 4WS in F1. No room for it on the Ecclestone/Moseley gravy train! Or is it a PR-ridden circus?

L J K Setright: Happy birthday to a remarkable, but long-forgotten Fiat - Features, Motoring - The Independent

LKJ Setright: Hybrids are not up to the job - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: Ideals and apples get just desserts - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: Increase speed to reduce congestion - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: Pressure grows for hi-tech tyres that will run and run - Features, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: 'Safety' features can be downright dangerous - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: 'Speed limits waste life. They are just a tool of repression' - Features, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: The best car in the world. By Honda motors - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: The non-smoking car is enough to make you choke - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

L J K Setright: Two feet are better than one to get an extra bit of control - Features, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: 'Why should drivers be lashed to the wheel?' - Features, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright: Why there's no such thing as a 'modern' diesel - Comment, Motoring - The Independent

LJK Setright
 

His essay on speed limits is nonsense, in my opinion. Worsened by
repeating the first paragraph!

The duplication of the opening paragraphs is a technical error on The Independent's website.

[quote=Blenheim Boy;1766]
L J K Setright: Two feet are better than one to get an extra bit of control - Features, Motoring - The Independent

I wonder just how many V8 owners do drive this way? Having done so for 40 years, I hate being in a manual car where this is an inadvisable way to proceed or stop!

Geo.

LJK Setright
 

I use my left foot to brace myself when driving hard but even for resting.
The idea of driving with my left foot hovering over the brake pedal is
weird and tiring !! Obviously many do a bad job of hovering, as I see
their stop lights on as they pull away from a light and continue down the
road!! In essence they now do not have a warning system that they are
stopping.
Are you Mr Geo one of those?
Since I am resting or bracing my left foot on the floor it would take me
about the same time to go from throttle to brake as it would from floor to
brake. Nothing gained!
I do use both feet in an automatic when rocking the car if stuck in snow or
mud.
I also have several cars ( auto and manual) and it is safer to use a
constant driving style.

Dorien

Left Foot Braking
 

Dear Forum,
The late Setright's hypothesis of reduced braking distance through left foot braking has,I believe, some merit. Recall, most, if not all, competition go karts use this system. Using basic physics formula we can see that if there is a 0.2 sec time advantage to apply braking force to a vehicle travelling initially at a constant speed of 100km/hr, then using s=vt, the vehicle in question displaces itself approximately 4.8metres (~15')over this short time frame. Clearly, if one hasn't allowed sufficient safe space between fellow travellers, then under emergency braking situations an "extra" car length (15') could be of significant use!

As an aside, engineers may suggest that the brakes would have to work a bit harder under left foot conditions as there would be a tendency for most drivers to leave the power on for a split second during an emergency braking event.

In closing, irrespective of the argument for left foot braking, I believe that the roads would be much safer if more was done to ban the use of mobile telephones and loud music in cockpits. How many distracted drivers have you endured/avoided this week?

Brett B.

LJK Setright
 

Totally agree, I have to use an Automatic now on all my cars as I do not
have a left leg,
the only use for the left leg in my 407 is waving it around trying to find
the dip switch at
night.!
Nick
P.s. when I did have two legs I still only drove with my right leg.

I thought it was dangerous and confusing to use the left foot at all driving an automatic, especially if you had the cruise control operating. My left foot is only ever used to operate the clutch on a manual car, but never the brake.

LJK Setright
 

Braking by Hand
I believe that most physiology books point out that humans have a quicker
hand reaction time vs foot reaction time. If so, then why don't we build
modern cars with motorcycle type brake actuation or indeed take up Mr
Setright's suggestion of a side mounted control column (joystick) which
could be used for steering and braking?

Re confusion, if we were brought up on the above system, we no doubt would
wonder how we coped with anything other than what we had come to learn and
use instinctively!

Brett

LJK Setright
 

I couldn't agree more.
Cruise control is fine if driving on a deserted highway in the States, just
to avoid speeding tickets, but in any kind of traffic, I find it gives a
feeling as if one is sitting on the back of a motorcycle. Totally without
control, even at the same speed one would normally be driving, with one foot
hovering over the brake pedal (right foot of course). I've just discovered
that tapping the "reset" knob on the steering wheel gives a slighly less
pronounced jolt than using the brake pedal.
I don't think cruise control actually saves fuel, slowing down going
downhill, and then accelerating like mad up a slight incline.
Like ABS, it just adds weight to the car, cost, and more things to go wrong.
For a decent sized car, I don't think that mileage has actually improved
since the 1930's, due mainly to weight increase, but I stand to be corrected
on this.
Just me being grumpy again.
Andrew.

LJK Setright, Fuel consumption
 

Following on from the last email which suggested that fuel consumption was
not much better because the weight of cars had increased, I can tell you
that it has.
I fitted one of Derek Hughes overdrive conversions to my 401, mainly due to
running on motorways where I wanted to bring down the engine revs. This
was one of the best things I have done to the car and which has brought down
the fuel consumption to nearer 30 mpg. and with no loss of performance.

Now as far as a modern car is concerned I bought a SAAB sportwagon with a
turbo charged 1.9 Alpha Romeo diesel engine of 150 bhp. This is the first
time I have bought a diesel and can only say that I am more than pleased as
on a run it will return 60 mpg and local driving just under 50 mpg.
My regards,
Bellerophon

LJK Setright, Fuel consumption
 

I have a Mike Robinson overdrive on my 400 and it does 25-28 mpg
cruising at 70-80 mph, yet my heavy old 2L V6 Auto Rover does about 35
mpg.
More to the point a now dated Rover 25 with a 1.6 engines has a
similar performance to a 410 and also does 35-40 mpg.
Ash