|
Unhappy postings
"This will be my last post into this thread"
Whew! |
Unhappy postings
Claude I second that proposal!!
Richard Levine |
Dear Kevin
Quote:
In view of the extensive postings that in essence file a complaint against Bristol Cars in the forum, it occurs to me that perhaps as web master you might develop a template for complaints and require posters follow it or have their postings deleted. This includes a requirement that words like "Scammed" be defined. Scamming is when a vendor is bogus, and the offering does not exist and the intent is to commit fraud. Scammers do not have permanent offices open to the public after the scam. In the particular case of Eric, it probably is time for some German / English jokes. The German expectation of workmanship is the world's highest standard. For those of us who try to restore our Bristols, we probably have worse stories than Eric (I certainly do), but we view it as part of the territory when one seeks to improve a car that were it the ordinary Chrysler, would long ago have been recycled into Budweiser cans. Taking Bristol Cars as the target of the day, I went on a major shopping trip years ago when Virgin Airlines offered a $250 long weekend from JFK to Heathrow. I brought back the most unbelievable check-in luggage, including a complete stainless steel exhaust system (which the bomb sniffers of the day took a very long time to x-ray) from Bristol Cars Spares. Among those gems were a new set of hubcaps from Bristol Spares that then sat in the garage for several years. Obviously a subcontracted purchase by BCL, the chrome delaminated and they were worthless. Next visit I took one back, which they kept for inspection, but never replaced them. Eventually, I found a vendor offering new hubcaps on eBay, bought them, had them shipped in four different packages by the Royal Mail (due to their weight limit), and they have held up fine. Now, if I were German, I would be outraged at this substandard work and would go to war. If I were English, I would stoically accept what I perceived as an abuse and maintain a stiff, if slightly quivering, upper lip. If I were an American (which I am), I would have been slightly amused, shrugged it off, and taken out my weapon of choice, my credit card and moved on. And yes, I probably have wasted over five figures on substandard work on my Bristol which I have had to pay twice, thrice or fice (is that a word?) before it was done right... not paid to Bristol Cars, but other "experts" in the industry. And, to keep the national theme for a moment, if I were Italian, I would have so delightfully told the forum of my woes, sought lots of advice and generally made everyone happy. May we have more Italian Bristol owners! The internet is very valuable in assessing what product to buy. On Amazon, a review of two different expresso machines caused me to buy the more expensive unit, as the complaints by the user sounded likely. However, these reviews need to be precise, tightly stated and without slander. We need information and the internet provides a counterbalance to the advertising claims of vendors. Eric's rant however, failed the test. It was interesting to read if one is a consumer anthropologist, but it contained far too much heat and not enough light. It probably deserves to be deleted unless someone wants to do a major edit, reduce it to the facts only and see if someone can't stop by Bristol Cars to get the other side of the story... although the other side may be obvious... it's an OLD car. My big fear is that too much of this stuff, and Bristol Cars will change its policy and tell old car owners to go away. The law requires ten years of parts stocking, and certainly does not require they recondition old stuff. I would hate to see a business decision be made based on this sort of heat. Over to you (isn't it fun to run a web forum?) Claude |
Claude , Richard
I am not going to speak about my problems Don't worry ( you can also avoid to read my threads ) Do you mean you have by divin right a special acreditation to decide what can or cannot be written in this forum ? Usually only simple minds are not able to enter in a contradictory debate I am the first to accept to be critisized but this should be based on fact . Facts you can prove of course . Rumour , sarcastic judgment that are based on nothing make me laugh :D This demonstrate me that is it a waste of time to answer your ramblings . This is not exactly what we call "Democraty" ... and we return to the question of "divine right" .... that you may have ? For me it is a thing of the past |
Unhappy postings
Well there you go! and I thought it was all over. I have been on holiday in Spain for the last few weeks and have read several novels and have become quite absorbed by the unhappy postings. It must have been the longest soap opera ever on a Forum.
Still this last posting shows you cannot keep a good dog down. . Thank you Moderator:-) I know you can turn everything off but you had to let this one run its course. . I hope Eric is feeling better now he has vented his feelings and that we can get back to normality (whatever that is) and enjoy posting like the Jenson 10. . Happy Days are here again! . Nick, V8 and proud. . |
Quote:
Read this exemple . You buy a nice vintage radio that is not working There is a specilaist in Germany who advertize for modification to FM band . Its obviously tempting and you send your radio to Germany for the modification . In the same time you ask him to change all the components inside to be on the safe side . Some months later you are informed that the radio is ready with all new parts . You pay immediatly and it is time now to install the radio in your Maserati . This is a hard job because the hole dashboard need to be removed . As soon as it's done you switch on the radio and it doesn't work .....wow .... You call the German and he confirms everything is new . You remove the radio and you go to a local specialist who open the cover and tells you that nothing had been done Can you tell me what is the right word to explain this particular situation I am here to learn |
Quote:
The big difference between you and me is that I have always respected all the members of this forum Your contemptuous attitude reflect who you are I am so sorry for you ! |
Dear Kevin
Well Claude,
Perhaps much of this could have ben avoided. Too may people rushing to defend Bristol....had you chipped in with your hubcap story and such like, Eric would have realized that he was not alone, and perhaps this was just the way it is. Grin and move on. Your international or national theme was infact followed LOL. Eric is in Belgium, a quasi central location in Europe. So he used the British side and did his quivering lip bit with mail and meetings....then passed on to the Italian (Latin) side and told everybody of his woes. On his way home from Italy he cut through the German side and may be planning a war! You see Claude, it was all as you thought. I agree the internet can be fun! Dorien |
Unhappy postings
Claude your idea for a webmaster-supervised complaint section could be very
problematic in relation to potential libel suits. All complaints brought before a court must have both sides heard; publishing just that of the complainant would be foolish at best, downright libelous at worst. In the event recently witnessed by us all only one side was presented, containing some extremely serious allegations which if defended would certainly have litigation potential. These allegations were repeated many times, therefore magnifying any potential damage to the other party. Why would any webmaster want to risk placing himself in a position equivalent to that of the publisher of a book which later proved to be defamatory. In such a case both the author and the publisher would have damages to pay. On the other hand I like to read disaster tales as much as the next guy; better in a Forum if no names given though! I'm sure Kevin will do what he feels right. Regards to all Richard |
Claude,
Eric has made my decision on this easier by asking me to remove the three main threads in an email message overnight. I have mixed feelings about removing the threads for a number of reasons. Not least of which because many other people put time and effort into writing responses. Also because I believe in free speech and the rights of the consumer and in particular because of the reasons this forum was created in the first place (or it's predecessor, the old BEEF mail list). On the other hand, I have always got on well with Brian Marelli and I don't want to see BCL damaged. It concerns me that we have only heard one side of the story and I cannot understand why TS didn't satisfactorily resolve the dispute long ago. I guess I am sitting on the fence at the moment, so I have "soft" deleted the threads for now. As for your template idea, I'll give it some thought and may get around to modifying the "Terms of Use", not that anyone takes any notice of them! Quote:
|
Quote:
"I have a printing press; I am free to print what I wish to have in my newspaper. " 'Free speech' means you may have your own printing press with which you are free to print what you wish to print. " 'Free speech' most definitely does not mean I have to print with my press what you wish me to print." I suppose that will cause some comments, but I buy into it. |
Unhappy postings
Claude,
I will not comment on Eric's case because I do not think that it is appropriate for me to do so. However, speaking generally, surely poor workmanship and poor customer relations is a serious business in any country. Put simply, if an organisation takes on a job that they cannot complete in a timely fashion, then they should not accept the work. Re your unfortunate experience with your hub caps, did you provide feedback to the vendor? If we collectively don't bring sub standard work to the vendor's/tradesperson's attention, then, ultimately, we will be forced to accept poor quality parts or workmanship. Brett |
Unhappy postings
Well Eric, as this was my first post on the subject, which you had several postings earlier said was closed, it just goes to prove that there is a vast difference in translation from the English humour to the Belgium/German/Italian depending upon your view point.
I did not insult you or any other member of the forum, in fact I was praising Kevin for allowing it to continue. It seems that.you are even unable to get a wireless repaired and updated so God knows how you expected to get a car repaired! Have a nice day, . Nick |
Quote:
I have a printing press; I am free to print what I wish to have in my newspaper. "Free speech" means you may have your printing press and you are free to print what you wish to print." "Free speech" most definitely does not mean I have to print with my press what you wish me to print. I supposed that will cause some comments, but I buy into it. I equate Kevin's board with being his printing press; He can print here what he wishes to, but he is not obligated to print anything he doesn't wish to print. And, the follow-up is plain. If you don't like the way Kevin runs his board, don't come here. Will this line of thought make his board less popular? Very possibly. I am very familiar with a bulletin board on the site of an American magazine, Shooting Sportsman, to be found at http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/. The publisher/board editor vigorously edit posts put up there, especially political posts they feel demean people - candidates of the opposite persuasion (yes, they believe candidates of the opposite persuasion to be people; can you imagine that? {Tongue-in-cheek, guys, hold your horses.} or those who do/don't believe in electric dog collars, etc. The result has been the creation of another board at http://notssmbbs.com/index.php, which is roaringly popular, where one can say "whatever you want to say." Note the similarity of the names of the two: one is Shooting Sportsman, or aka as "SSM", while the other is "NOTssm." In not atypical American style, short shrift is often given complainers. And if one is politically liberal, one posts at one's own risk. |
Quote:
I gave the hubcap to Sid Lovesy as I recall, who was rather busy at the time. Have no idea what happened afterwards. |
Quote:
Claude |
Unhappy postings
Claude,
......... Did you buy the second set of hubcaps from the firm that frequently advertises them on UK eBay. website as they seem quite reasonably priced and I had been wondering what the quality was like. The original hubcaps were made by a firm called Tuckers and the quality compared to there earlier offerings was poor, as I was to find out. a few years ago there was something worse than a new hubcap from Tuckers and that was one re plated by them! I had bought a pair some years previously and fitted them to my 411 coincidentally at the same time as I fitted a new set of four acquired from BCL to my 410. The ones on the 410 have held up well considering they are left on all the time and the car is used. during the winter. The re plated Tucker hubcaps were red rusty after about a year and it was quite obvious the chrome had been applied directly to the steel, they now match the rusty ones on the back , the rusty bumpers and the awful paint work so at least I can be thankful they haven't spoilt the rat rod look of the car!! Geoff. |
Well this thread has made me seriously consider whether to go ahead with an S6 upgrade to my 411.
Thats the truth - I wonder if the chaps at warminster are any better...... |
Quote:
You could always check with Richard Levine about his Blenheim 4 one-off. |
Unhappy postings
There are some owners on this forum who no doubt have already gone down that route and may well be willing to share there experiences with you .Octane gave the S6 a very good write up and the standard of the restored cars that BCL had at the Filton event was very high as were the cars present from some of their. West Country competitors. Don't dismiss the BCL option based on Eric's comments or the suggestion that some sort of complaints option should be set up on this site.
Eric was after all talking about a much older car which he wanted to enter into and hopefully stand up to a mechanically very demanding retrospective event, his will not be the first newly restored car to break under those conditions and certainly not the last. I would love to be able to afford to send my 411 to patchway for the full works upgrade and restoration as I would one of my old 401's or 403's to Spencer Lane Jones or Tony Mitchell for restoration and upgrades to my own requirements. but I would do so in the knowledge that things won't always work out perfectly first time round and some totally unexpected problems can develop if only because something fails as another part of the car is now performing better than it was before or when it was new. Also some parts that we all rely on for our older cars, points, rotor arms,distributor caps and in my case the electronic didistributortself simply aren't up to original equipment specification. While Eric has been telling us about his problems and others have been replying, my 1993 Range Rover LsLesas broken down twice having been repaired by a local Land Rover specialist, he replaced the distributor because of mechanical wear and we are now on the third replacement in two weeks , not because there is anything wrong with the vehicle to cause the fault just because the ignition amplifiers on the replacements are a load of crap!! The garage if now fitting an amplifier from another supplier BUT up and till now I must have over the years bought hundreds of parts for Land Rovers and Range Rovers from the after market source that supplied the Distributor and this experience while frustrating would not put me off buying from them again. ........... I have only ever had good service from Bristol Cars, I have always been a purchaser of parts but have. sufficient confidence in the standard of their work and the way they do business to recently purchase a reconditioned 2 Litre engine from them. Which ever choice you make just be realistic that there could be teething problems and as with any old car these could take a bit of time to s long and if. like me you have ever been involved in recommissioning a car after a long slumber you will know exactly what I mean. |
Quote:
Must get my own printing press one of these days! |
Quote:
Libel laws of course differ from one country to the next. The UK's libel laws are quite archaic and favour the plaintiff even when what was said was actually true. Whereas in many other parts of the world unless the plaintiff can prove that what has been said was untrue, they are unlikely to win the case. In the case of a British manufacturer, being criticised by a Belgian customer, on a self moderated web forum based in Australia, with an international audience, and the forum sits on a server leased by a Pty Ltd company, the mind boggles at the possibilities! |
Quote:
Eric emailed me directly and he thought you were calling him a dog. In reply I explained to Eric that your dog comment was just a figure of speech and could sometimes even be taken as a compliment. However, by the time I could email Eric due to the time difference, he had already responded. Hopefully that's nipped that one in the bud :) Just as well we don't use many Aussie colloquialisms! |
Unhappy postings
I rather suspect our Belgian friend knew this which is why his campaign against Bristol has been waged on this forum and not the three uk forums. Of course the easiest action is always against the publisher........which is why a lot of Internet blogs don't moderate comments because as soon as you moderate you take responsibility for the content.
Paul |
Unhappy postings
Not sure if this helps, but being the owner of the S6 advertised in Octane I
can vouch for the high quality of BCL workmanship. Naturally, it is still a classic car with the occasional issue - but as a family car driven weekly (by someone without a clue how to fix even the smallest of problem) it cannot be temperamental, and I have so far found it to be very reliable. Only last week I was stuck in a bumper-to-bumper traffic jam on the M3 for 2 hours (4 hr journey in total), and passed approximately 10 cars on the side lane which had over heated - and they were much newer than mine. Finally, and following this successful nut and build 411 restoration, you may be interested to learn that my brother has ordered the first (from BCL) S6 603 which is due before Christmas. |
Unhappy postings
I have had a classic restoration of a 412 from Bristol Cars and I cannot speak highly enough of their work and the value for money BCL deliver. Almost every item on the car was replaced during the restoration. At a fixed price. Very few companies I know would offer that.
It is worth noting that a series 6 411 is a completely rebuilt car to Blenheim mechanical spec which uses new/modern components not restored parts. A restored original car, even with a new engine, is a classic restoration car. There is about 70,000 in the difference between the two! If you are looking at an engine upgrade to your car I can again recommend BCL who have designed and built an engine for my car as a one off. They insisted on modifying my gearbox valve body to get the best out of the engine performance curve, at their own cost. They are more demanding of themselves than I am, and I am nobody's pushover. The cost wouldn't have covered the cost of a cylinder head on an Aston. I would discount Eric's 'story' as there is another unspoken side to this from what I gather. Regards Paul |
Quote:
No website operator is forced to leave posted messages if he does not choose to. Of course, in so doing he creates a tone for the site that may lessen its appeal. There are many boards that do this. Most of the boards on fine watches, for example, state very firmly that certain types of posts simply are not allowed. And, many do not allow "objectionable" photos. |
Unhappy postings
Hi Lou,in the UK any form of control over content is deemed to be approval of what is left and leaves you open to an action.
This is why it is such a minefield |
Quote:
one more time you are wrong As always , I have the honesty to contact the webmaster to explain what I want to do I have contacted the BOC in the UK and got a telephone call yesterday . To be defamatory , a post should be fake Up to now , I have not read any clever or technical post saying "Eric this photo is fake , Eric ,this is not true" Just post about my mental illness It's just a bit light !!;) I have more than 500 mails exchanged and it takes time to read everything I found a mail today and this is what they had written Hi Eric Yes it is your axle. I agree from the picture, it is BAD. I can only apologize Before writing this is not true , I can forward the mail if necessary |
Its reassuring that those of you who have experience of BCL V8 car rebuilds have positive experiences.
I look forward to discussing specifications with BCL early 2011 - I suspect the rebuild,engine mods, repaint etc to my requirements may turn out to be an S6 but will have to see. Anyone have any idea how long it takes? - 6/9/12 months? Do you deal in the first instance with London office or Filton office? Thanks Steve |
Unhappy postings
Eric, you are on a crusade, which you alluded to in one of your deleted posts where you are apparently going to write to every 2l owner, take out adverts in the press, set up a website etc. Forgive me but those are not the actions of an impartial man.
In my opinion much of what you have written is libellous, that is not to say there is no truth in it, rather that you are over egging the issues, omitting all the mitigating factors and ascribing motives to the facts as you see them that are defamatory. On top of that the 'facts' are in dispute and you are presenting them as God's own evidence. You might take care to look up malicious libel which is an altogether different animal. There is a difference between having a legitimate grievance and pursuing a jihad. I have no problem whatever with the former. |
Unhappy postings
That explains his very cross reply!
Thank you for helping him to understand what I was trying to say. It just shows. how the situation with BCL might have got out of hand. Offence can be taken, as it was in this case, where non was intended only, wry observations. That's life! . Nick |
Unhappy postings
Steve, a classic restoration takes about four to five months. You just ring Toby Silverton at Kensington. There is a very long goodies list you can go for!
Paul |
Quote:
Does that mean that if old Robby Noakes down in OZ were to see a photo of my shotgun and 1. posts compliments to me on the gun, then adds 2. a derogatory remark about how poorly I shoot it, and concludes in a sentence 3. I am not entitied to own such a fine gun (say a Marks & Spencer item, that cost me 15 pounds sterling) and the blog proprietor deletes part 3, as being an opinion rather than a fact, that he, the proprietor, is open to action from Noakes for censorship? Or from me? If this feeble attempt is a poorly composed example, perhaps you can give me a better one. In passing, I don't intend to run a blog anywhere! If UK law were to prevail in the US, we'd have very few blogs if I understand you correctly. |
Quote:
Then, there is always the human tendency to add some more goodies to the list after the job has begun and that would prolong completion, without a doubt. There can be only so many workers at work on a vehicle at any given time, as one will understand. |
Unhappy postings
There is no law against censorship. But there is for libel. In the UK if you have snow outside your door and you attempt to clear it and someone falls you are liable because you took responsibility for the whole thing as soon as you touched it. If you just leave your snow untouched and someone falls then that is their problem alone, you are not liable. Moderating blogs works the same way which is why you either don't moderate at all in which case you get spammed by nutcases and the real users fade away or you moderate pretty heavily to avoid any action, libel is the least of your worries as you can be held liable for racist, homophobic or religious hatred quite easily and these are criminal rather than civil issues.
Paul |
Unhappy postings
Hi Lou, mine took under five months last time, TS did indicate a similar time to me in the last few weeks when discussing an addition to the fold although the works are full. Series 6 are on waiting lists.
Paul |
Quote:
The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Roman Catholic Europe, between 1095 and 1291 A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid ! Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims In case you are representative of the "Bristol world" ....I am not interested to be in your world ! Once again, your insults make me laugh and shows your level of hatred against a member of this forum who just wanted to have his Bristol on the road and paid for it ! |
Quote:
I guess with you I have just the right to shut up and pay As Jacques Brel said "Plus ça devient vieux plus on devient bête ..... plus ça devient vieux plus ça devient con ' ):D |
It is not enough to read and write English, you have to understand what you are reading and writing too
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 01:45 PM. |
This is the live site