WARNING Faulty 2 Litre engine cylinder head gaskets

[Eric Brumenil]

A manufacturer sold me faulty cylinder head gaskets and I have been unfailry treated !
It looks they had been manufactured in 1989

Detailed photos here

2-L-Bristol-FAULTY-Cylinder-Head-Gasket

I informed the manufacturer in 2009
I thought on the precautionary principle it should have informed the dozens of clients(the number is coming directly from the manufacturer)
who bought or had this gasket installed on their car
The manufacturer wrote me that I am the only one to complaint about it !

Is it an appropriate answer when you are informed of important problem that may cause important damage to the engine ?

I have contacted Consumer Direct in the UK and they wrote me consumers have 6 years to make a claim .

To the honnorable sarcastic members of this forum :
I just want to remind you that most of the respectable Car Manufacturers have recalled thousands of cars on the precautionary principle .
Please don't loose your time to say you are happy with your car .

We are talking about goods that are NOT satisfactory for their particular purpose

When we purchase parts for our (over 45 year old engines) we must be aware that the parts must be checked before fitting. I have been in the motor trade for over 40 years, and one rule that should always be followed is to check the new gasket with the old.
If this had been done before the head was fitted the problem could have been cured before fitting, either by contacting the gasket manufacturer or simply punching a new hole.
Roger.

[Hydroglen]

I agree with you in checking parts, and yes I would have punched a new
hole. The engine function may not necessarily overheat even with a plugged
hole.
However Eric is correct, that the reply given, that he was the only one to
complain, is totally inappropriate. It is a feeble attempt to shift the
blame to the customer and is rude and unacceptable.
Dorien Berteletti

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by 190251cars

When we purchase parts for our (over 45 year old engines) we must be aware that the parts must be checked before fitting. I have been in the motor trade for over 40 years, and one rule that should always be followed is to check the new gasket with the old.
If this had been done before the head was fitted the problem could have been cured before fitting, either by contacting the gasket manufacturer or simply punching a new hole.
Roger.

I agree with you
The problem is that this manufacture wrote that dozens of cars are RUNNING with the faulty gasket fitted as it !

The reason for my replying to this post was to say that the onus must lay with the engine builder and not the manufacturer of the gasket.
These gaskets are most likely made by "men in sheds" not computerized robots,
so once again check against the old gasket rather than blindly fitting it.
As for the manufacturer telling you that no one else has complained could well have been true as a competent and professional engineer would have checked old against new.
Do you not agree that the engine builder is at least partly to blame?
Roger

[Rubbond]

Eric,
This gasket looks well made and its age (unused) is irrelevant.
It presumably fits other engines, where that one hole is not required.
This is no longer amusing.
In my opinion you are a complete nutter.

[Hydroglen]

Roger,
I am not sure if your reply is to Eric or me. I agree that the engine
builder may have some blame. However you write
a competent and professional engineer would have checked old against new

Presumably when the "man in the shed" delivered the faulty gaskets "a
competent and professional engineer at Bristol would have checked old
against new" but maybe he was off on his tea break!! LOL

Regards
Dorien

[Eric Brumenil]

CODE OF PRACTICE ON VEHICLE SAFETY DEFECTS
This Code concerns cases where manufacturers, concessionaires or official/independent importers become aware of the existence of safety defects (as defined below) in units that are available for supply in the UK.
Supplier - is taken to mean vehicle or component/part producer/manufacturer, official/ independent importer, distributor or concessionaire.
CASES COVERED BY THE CODE
a; where evidence indicates the existence of a safety defect in the unit; and
b; the defect appears to be common to a number of units; and
c; units are available for supply in the UK.
It will be a matter of VOSA/supplier judgement to decide whether the number of units affected is sufficient to justify invoking the Code. A fixed numerical limit cannot be specified as the decision will take account of the degree of seriousness of any possible hazard involved.
CASES AFFECTING COMPONENTS OR PARTS
Safety defects covered by the Code include those relating to components or parts bought by suppliers from other (component/parts) manufacturers and (component/part) suppliers, whether sold with the vehicle as original equipment or supplied to the automotive aftermarket.
RECALL ARRANGEMENTS WITH INDIVIDUAL MANUFACTURERS
VOSA will require a supplier to notify it of the names of a recall coordinator and deputy with safety recall campaign responsibility.
CASES AFFECTING COMPONENTS OR PARTS
Safety defects covered by the Code include those relating to components or parts bought by suppliers from other (component/parts) manufacturers and (component/part) suppliers, whether sold with the vehicle as original equipment or supplied to the automotive aftermarket.
NOTIFICATION TO VOSA
Primary responsibility is that of the supplier to inform VOSA as soon as safety defect evidence requiring remedial action amounts to a case under the terms of the Code.
The Supplier shall at that stage indicate:
• the nature of the defect and estimated number of units involved;
• the nature of the safety hazard involved; and
• action planned at that time to remedy the defect
In cases where the defect appears to stem from a fault in a component/part produced by another supplier, that other supplier will also be notified and VOSA advised accordingly.
The Supplier will also inform VOSA of all subsequent decisions on remedial action. This includes cases in which component suppliers are involved, unless in the circumstances of the case it is agreed between the vehicle supplier and the appropriate component supplier for all remedial action to become the
responsibility of the component supplier, in which case the latter shall keep VOSA informed.
INITIATIVES BY VOSA IN PARTICULAR CASES
VOSA may wish to seek information from a supplier about safety defects that have been brought to their attention. In these cases, the supplier will pass all relevant information available, and cooperate with VOSA in establishing whether a defect is present.
The primary responsibility for deciding on remedial action lies with the supplier, but VOSA may, at its discretion, offer views and make recommendations on the measures proposed.
NOTIFICATION TO UNIT OWNERS
The supplier will take all reasonable action to contact affected owners/registered keepers and recall their vehicles/components/parts for inspection and, if necessary, rectify components or assemblies the supplier believes are safety defective.
In consultation with VOSA the supplier will send communication, in layman’s terms, to the owner/registered keeper, directly or through the franchised dealer network or through other methods explaining the nature of the defect and its safety significance. VOSA must be given the opportunity to comment on the content of and method of communication prior to instigating a campaign.
If the supplier or franchised dealer receives no response from the owner/registered keeper then further communication will be sent.
If requested, the DVLA will furnish the supplier with names and addresses of the owner/registered keepers shown on their record, in accordance with existing procedures. Alternatively DVLA can address and dispatch letters from the supplier to the owner/registered keeper at the suppliers request and cost.
Suppliers will notify VOSA of the response rate at three monthly intervals, until the recall action is complete or it is mutually agreed that the campaign be closed for reporting purposes.
PUBLICATION OF INFORMATION ON VEHICLE/COMPONENT/PART DEFECTS BY VOSA
VOSA reserves the right, under Ministerial authority, to publish at any time information of public interest. Before doing so, VOSA will consult the supplier, and where appropriate the component/part manufacturer/supplier concerned.
VOSA will not disclose publicly information on matters of commercial confidence unless there appear to be overriding safety considerations. Subject to this proviso, VOSA will also make public at regular intervals, summary information on action taken on cases notified under the Code. It will normally divert to a supplier more specific requests on particular cases.
IMPORTED UNITS
In the case of a recall affecting units imported by an independent importer, that importer shall bear the responsibilities specified in this Code.
If the independent importer is not available to undertake this obligation, then VOSA will contact the manufacturer of the affected units.
This Code will also apply to personally imported units, insofar as the supplier is able to identify the unit’s presence in the UK.
EXPORTED UNITS
The Code does not cover exported units. Measures to be taken in relation to these will depend upon the legal and administrative arrangements prevailing in the country of import. However, the sponsors of the Code are prepared to participate in any international discussions/agreements designed to harmonise arrangements governing notification of defects and related remedial action.
FURTHER INFORMATION
This Code of Practice is drawn up and has been revised as a consequence of the implementation of Directive 2001/95/EC on general product safety and the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 and is not intended to interpret, qualify or supplement English Law.
You retain your rights under the Regulations and copies can be obtained from The Stationery Office
Any further information is obtainable by contacting VOSA via the details provided below.
This Code of Practice is produced in tandem with the VOSA Guide to Recalls and acknowledged within the Europe Recall Guide.
For Further Information Contact: Vehicle Safety Branch, Vehicle and Operator Services Agency, Berkeley House, Croydon Street, Bristol, BS5 ODA. Tel: 0117-9543300 or VOSA corporate website

[Kevin H]

On the Bristol Cars web site it says:

"Bristol Cars have 98% of the original
machine parts drawings from the 1940's on.
If you require a part specially made
to original tolerances,
please ask and we will look into it."

I took this to mean that the parts would be accurate to the original drawings.

But after looking at that head gasket maybe it means if you require a part to original tolerances then it will need to be specially made

If a car manufacturer knowingly sold me a head gasket that had a cooling hole missing I would be pretty upset.

Bristol themselves could have punched the extra hole required before they sold the gasket - it should not be up to the customer to discover that there's a hole missing and punch it themselves!

[Hydroglen]

Right you are Kevin, and if after being upset you were told you were the
only customer to complain, your upset may raise to the poetic levels
described by Jim in Oregon.

Dorien

[Geoff Kingston]

Kevin
I recently fitted a head gasket set to a Cadillac that had one of the holes from the original design deleted and a note in the kit or the gasket manufacturers website,, I don't remember which, as to why that had been done. The car runs perfectly and does not overheat. The modification was to improve the water circulating characteristics of the engine so it isn't always safe to assume just because it isn't original it isn't right. Didn't I see some comments recently on cooling system mods on this site? If I did can you point me in the right direction as I have just bought a reconditioned 2 Litre engine from BCL and when installed in my 403 my aim is to return the car to normal every day use hence my interest in anything that will make the car practical in every day traffic without spoiling the essential character of the car, all ideas and suggestions welcome, except buying a V8 as I already have two of those on the road!!
Regards,
Geoff.

[Bellerophon]

This sounds like the gaskets which can be obtained from the German BMW
club, they are of good quality, however, on their 328 engines they do not have
a small hole near the rear of the block as the later Bristol engines do. I
have one of these gaskets in my engine which I modified first by putting in
the hole, and am pleased to say that I have had no problem for several
years of running with it.
It is becoming more difficult to source good parts for our engines so one
has to take the best which is available even if it requires a little
modification, after all we need to keep the cars on the road.
My regards,
Bellerophon

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

This sounds like the gaskets which can be obtained from the German BMW
club, they are of good quality, however, on their 328 engines they do not have
a small hole near the rear of the block as the later Bristol engines do.
Bellerophon

Bellerophon ,
It's very interesting to know that the BMW has not this hole
As far as I remember something in German was written on the packaging . I still have it .
This can mean this manufacturer is selling BMW cylinder head gaskets ?

If it's that case , don't you think it is their responsability to controll the compatibility with the BMW parts .
They are supposed to have the knowledge .
When I order parts I always inform the seller about the model , chassis & engine number .
The part manager who sold me those gasket has a serious experience and did not know his gasket had a hole missing .

This is on this basis that one year later I have been told that I am the only one in the world to complaint .
Is it normal that I need to go to the Court to get replacement parts ?
This gasket cost more than £160 + P&P

This is not an appropriate answer
When a manufacturer is informed about a problem I think it should to all its best
1. to quantify how many of faulty parts had been sold or installed by its service
2. to inform their client about the problem
3. to remedy

BMW , Ferrari , Rolls-Royce , Toyota , Mercedes......... recall cars for less important problem

Nobody is perfect but when you know a problem solve it asap

This is not so easy to punch a hole in such type of gasket .
The steel layer is very strong and the location of the hole is very close to the combustion chamber strapping
There is a real risk to destroy the gasket and I think you immediately loose your primary guarantee

[Bellerophon]

If you know what you are doing it is quite easy to put a hole in the gasket
without destroying it!
The easy way is to mark the position carefully and put in a small hole with
a drill, check that this lines up with the block or head and them use a
small hand tool such as a Dremil with a small grinding wheel and enlarge the
hole until you have a perfect match. If you are not exactly in line it is
possible to pull the hole into line with this method, however, a punch
unless it is very sharp is not the best thing to use.

If you have a problem there is always someone on here who has had the
problem before or knows how to fix it, so all you have to do is ask, and
hopefully you will receive an answer.
My regards,
Bellerophon

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Geoff Kingston

Kevin
I recently fitted a head gasket set to a Cadillac that had one of the holes from the original design deleted and a note in the kit or the gasket manufacturers website,, I don't remember which, as to why that had been done.

I suspect had Eric been told that gasket he bought was different and that the hole had been deleted from the design then he might not have been so upset.

But to knowingly sell someone a gasket that is not correct and not mention it is both careless and irresponsible.

Originally Posted by Geoff Kingston

Didn't I see some comments recently on cooling system mods on this site?

Bellerophon mentioned quite a long time ago that he fitted an oil cooler to his 6 cyl Bristol (401?). I think the other cooling mods mentioned were in relation to V8 cars.

Try a forum search using the term "cooling"

regards,
Kevin

[bristolblue]

Hi Eric,
You paid not much for Your head gasket. Head gaskets for the Bristol 400 are
on Sale on german Ebay for 324 Euros.
Have a good look at the picture.
Good luck
bristolblue

[Hydroglen]

Well well...324 Euros and on sale! I typically pay about $120 for a custom
made head gasket and the price does not vary much regardless of the car.
Obviously 6 cylinder engines, so the amount of material and work is
similar.
Perhaps the price is geared to the BMW / Bristol collector and the perceived
wallet thickness!

Dorien

[Hydroglen]

Correct, and I have done exactly that when having to enlarge stud holes.
There have been times when I have needed to go to a larger size stud, yet
I still had headgskets with the smaller holes.
Dorien

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by bristolblue

Head gaskets for the Bristol 400 are
on Sale on german Ebay for 324 Euros
bristolblue

Thank you for infomration Bristolblue

I noticed that the Bristol 400 cylinder head gasket has the hole for cooling the 6 th hemispherical chamber and seems to be suitable for a 404 Bristol engine
I can imagine for all 2L Bristol engine ???

This also means there is probably ONLY ONE model of gasket for all the 2 Liter Bristol engine

In this case , it is less acceptable to get from a well knowed supplier a faulty goods
And two time more inacceptable when you inform the supplier about the problem he answer I am the only one in the world who complaint about the problem !

Is it normal or acceptable that noone have been informed ?

They should have contacted all clients and give them the opportunity to changed it ( normal recall )
With a detailed description of the problem and SERIOUS analysis of the situation that this may cause or not,. Each client could have made his own opinion and decided to keep the situation as it or change it under guarantee

With my limited experience in rally , I know well that overheating is a matter that concern all oldtmier owners

And to cut a long story short , simply think why in 1936 the BMW had no hole and why after improvement of the engine , engineers had decided to make this modification to increase the water flow ?

Maybe some of you are more clever than the people who made this engine and all its modifications

I have a tendency to say they knew why they did it

Attached the photo of the packaging showing it is made in Germany and maybe for BMW engine ?????
Note that I have not bought the cylinder head gasket in Germany but directly in England for 167,43 GBP + 22,91 for P&P

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by Rubbond

Eric,
In my opinion you are a complete nutter.

Dear Rubbond , are you Antony Steevenson from the Bristol Cars Ltd who wrote me a registered letter november 11 , 2010 ?
What is your position in the Bristol Cars Ltd ?