408 Engine Question

[Bryn Tirion]

Originally Posted by rkirk304

I bought Andy's 408 last year.
It has needed some work on its steering and also the petrol tank. But the biggest issue has been its engine.
Luckily the 340 "six pack" is an object of great interest to Mopar nuts. With new inlet manifolds, pushrods and much work trying to get the carburetors right it now produces enormous amounts of power.
It is however a little corse, and doesn't like being smooth at 70mph, although pulls like a train beyond 100mph.
If anyone knows of good 313 or 318, I would be very interested in purchasing it. I live in the US, so shipping from Canada would be easy.
The 340 is quite valuable, and I have plenty of potential buyers for that.

I would happily place a wanted ad for you up here. I see you are in Massachusetts, I am located in Alberta.

If you want to find a 318 poly engine in the US, you should look for it in models that used the Carter AFB carburettor, to get the same level of performance. These cars would include the 1960 to 1962 Dodge Dart, including submodels Phoenix, Pioneer and Seneca, although the first of these is most likely to have that option. 1958 to 1960 DeSotos also had the 318 four barrel as an option. I don't have details on later models, but certainly up to 1967 these engines were still current in several models, and found in the Fury among others, and only replaced by the LA in all Chrysler divisions in 1967, although the LA was introduced in in 1964. Most of these poly engines have long since been replaced with something very like your 340.

PS. I have found one 318 in Las Vegas and one in San Jose. PM me if you want details of these. Both are cheap and look complete; the San Jose one was from a 1965 Fury and was running well when removed....... that one would be suitable, although it looks like a 2 barrel, but probably still a performance engine. There's even a video of it running in the car, and it does look and sound good.

[Thor]

I held off from posting on this when it first came up and I have tried to hold off again these last few days, but my petrol head has overcome my sensible head, so here goes :
While a Bristol of the period should have a polysphere 318 engine (original 'A'), and it really is a fine engine, if a little heavy, a 340 six-pack is among the best single cam carburettor V8 engines ever, and there is no shame in running one of these in any vehicle which will take it.
I would like to increase my car collection to include a Dodge Challenger of the period, carefully set up to handle (and ride) well on road, powered by a 340 six-pack. You can have a Hemi or a 440 Max-wedge, but the 340 gives all the power you need if you're not actually drag-racing, and is usefully lighter in the nose of the car.
Anyway, as others have said, the 340 will not be difficult to sell.
As to the originality question, I think these V8 Bristols are amazingly good cars to drive, even in modern traffic. I feel quite strongly that using more modern Mopar V8s and more up-to-date Mopar transmissions are very positive things to do, so that the beauty of the cars and the good qualities of the chassis can be used more frequently, if not daily, with the better economy, driveability, and emissions of the more modern drivetrain.
So you might consider rebuilding your 408 with a Magnum 360 with a 4 or 5-speed and lock-up transmission, its not that difficult !

[Bryn Tirion]

Remember that the OP was about an effect on value of the car with an original engine as opposed to the 340. There is indeed a positive value in having a Bristol-sanctioned drivetrain, which can be: a. a 313 poly; b. a 318 poly;c. a 383. The transmission could be either earlier or later push-button Torqueflite, or 727 Torqueflite. For 1965-level performance there is little to beat a poly engine. The 408 313 develops stock 250 bhp at 4400 RPM, and that is straight, unmodified 1958 Plymouth Belvedere with AFB. Bristol pretended they tuned it, but specs are Plymouth stock. The poly A engines developed about 15% more bhp with comparable carburation than did the later LA engines. They're just, as Thor says, heavy.

Since it is rkirk's car, he can do whatever he wants with it, but to fit in with the smooth, high speed cruising style of the car-as-built-in-1965, the 340 or other high cam engine is unsuitable, and a 360 is not a Bristol-sanctioned engine. At slow speed, these cars are meant to glide along almost silently, with just a subdued blub-blub from the tailpipes.

The early cast iron Torqueflites are heavy and run hot, and the aluminium 727 is a much better unit for those reasons. If I could keep the pushbutton operation, I would make the change, but I am not aware that you can.

As for making the 408 into a more modern drive, there lies the slippery slope we can easily get sucked down, and I've been that road myself. Your 408, almost no matter what you do to it, will not beat my 2004 Focus wagon with 2.3 litre Z-Tec engine to 60 mph (7.8 seconds), and that's not fast these days. So why bother? Keep it as a 1965 car and enjoy the ambiance. It still drives very well indeed, feels smooth and powerful, and will easily keep up with modern traffic under normal driving and at any legal speed, plus 40 mph or so!

[rkirk304]

Hello All,

I have acquired a 318 Poly, as I could not find a 313.
The motor is currently being rebuilt, with much guidance from Gary Pavlovich.
I would like to know what color the engine should be painted.
Does anyone know?

I have also received quite a few offers on the 340 6 pack. Apparently it is highly prized.

[Bryn Tirion]

Antique Chrysler green (it is a robin's egg blue-green). This is the same as Duplicolor Detroit Diesel Alpine Green, but I used Plastikote number 225 Alpine Green, and I was told that Krylon colour number 2007 is much the same. This colour was very popular for several engines by different manufacturers. Valve or Rocker covers are usually the same colour, but I have seen them black too.

[rkirk304]

Thanks Bryn.
I will send a photo when complete.

[Bryn Tirion]

I look forward to seeing it.

[Bob318]

Originally Posted by Bryn Tirion

I would happily place a wanted ad for you up here. I see you are in Massachusetts, I am located in Alberta.

If you want to find a 318 poly engine in the US, you should look for it in models that used the Carter AFB carburettor, to get the same level of performance. These cars would include the 1960 to 1962 Dodge Dart, including submodels Phoenix, Pioneer and Seneca, although the first of these is most likely to have that option. 1958 to 1960 DeSotos also had the 318 four barrel as an option. I don't have details on later models, but certainly up to 1967 these engines were still current in several models, and found in the Fury among others, and only replaced by the LA in all Chrysler divisions in 1967, although the LA was introduced in in 1964. Most of these poly engines have long since been replaced with something very like your 340.

PS. I have found one 318 in Las Vegas and one in San Jose. PM me if you want details of these. Both are cheap and look complete; the San Jose one was from a 1965 Fury and was running well when removed....... that one would be suitable, although it looks like a 2 barrel, but probably still a performance engine. There's even a video of it running in the car, and it does look and sound good.

The older, 318 polysphere A-engine was still used in Canada for 1967 (US vehicles got the LA wedge-head engine that year). And as for carburetion, ALL 318 poly engines were two-barrel-only starting in 1963. But even that engine is a brisk, torquey performer. And as I said in another thread, factory and aftermarket four-barrel manifolds are all over ebay. Foiks like Hot Heads, Egge Machine, and Gary Pavlovich will also be glad to sell you hotter camshafts and other performance parts; Gary is among those who have bored and stroked the 318 poly V8 to over 400 cu. inches while leaving it stock looking outside, so there's another option.