A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

[livermoreb]

I have a problem with the starter on my 410. Having worked fine until recently, it suddenly developed a fault where the starter spins but does not engage with the engine.

I have checked everything I can think of, had the starter refurbished and still it doesn't work.

The starter works perfectly correctly out of the car but once I put it back in it still does not engage.

I have tested the electrical side to distraction and everything works - there is a strong current to the starter, the starter relay works, the ignition switch works. Jumping power direct from the battery does not make any difference.

The earth connections are good so no loss of power there.

I am stumped, and so is everyone else who has looked at it.

Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a solution? Am I missing something?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[mjolner]

starter problem =surely if starter works are there teeth left on the flywheel?
there could be just a bad spot on the circumferance of the flywheel,try turning the engine a bit by hand to get to good teeth?Let us know.

[livermoreb]

Yes all teeth present and correct on flywheel. Flywheel not loose or slipping.

[Thor]

You haven't mentioned checking the operation of a Bendix on the starter. Having said that I don't remember whether there is one on a 410.

A bendix will not always kick if the starter is held in your hands because the initial jerk is dampened by the lack of rigidity in your hands. try it held in a vice if you suspect this.

Is the starter spinning the correct way ?

I hope that helps !

[livermoreb]

Well I think we may have solved the mystery. Putting it right may be more of a challenge though!

There is apparently a small clutch in the bendix assembly which is slipping. Therefore, while the bendix appeared to be functioning correctly when out of the car, it failed under load as the bendix did not have enough grip to turn over the engine.

I have uploaded a photo and the clutch is just behind the pinion.

I am hoping I will be able to find a place to buy just this part from but I may have to get a whole new starter I guess - if I can find one?

[livermoreb]

Just to finalise this, I did get the part - it is the drive pinion. I got it from americanautoparts.co.uk who were very helpful and delivered it the next day.

Apparently this is a fairly common fault with these starters.

[Thor]

So it starts the engine now - that's a relief. How difficult is it to change this one way clutch ? do you have to take the starter motor completely apart again ?

[livermoreb]

Yes the engine starts OK now. It is not too difficult to change it. You have to get the starter out of course, which is a bit of a struggle unless you have small hands. Then there is a steel cover over the drive pinion assembly which levers off. The actual drive pinion is held in with 2 circlips so you will need the appropriate pliers to remove these.

There is an excellent article at - Repairing vintage Chrysler - Plymouth - Dodge starters - which explains it all.

If you need to buy a part, American Car Parts and American Car Service, all things american,car,parts,service are very good and will send you one for £37 odd. Contact Wojtek at sales@americanautoparts.co.uk.

However, I have a spare one because, after I had ordered the one from American Auto Parts, the garage that originally stripped and refurbished my starter for an extortionate fee, and did not spot the problem clutch assembly, felt so embarrassed that they gave me another one. I can let you have that for let's say £20 plus postage.

[Thor]

OK, well I am taking the engine and box out of mine next year and plan to fit a 4-speed and lockup trans (A500 42RE) so I might as well have the opportunity to refurb this bit of the starter as well. I can't remember how to mail directly through the forum, but we could make arrangements by email. Mine is jond@jeengineering.co.uk