Bristol 410 engine sump removal

[DODD]

Hello,
Is it possible to remove the engine sump from a 410 without removing the engine or raising the engine off its engine mounts?
Regards
Brian

[DODD]

Hello,
I have answered my own question, unfortunately I couldn’t wait for a reply so made the attempt yesterday. Access to all of the bolts holding the sump in position were very accessible, the problem came when lowering the sump and trying to slide it forward slightly before dropping it down, the rear of the sump has a slight lip on the top edge just to the rear of the rubber semicircular gasket. This lip catches on the top edge of the cover plate to the front of the bell housing by about 1/16th of an inch. Rather than force it off I removed the bolts hold the cover plate in position but NOT the bolts to the starter motor, This allowed just enough wriggle room to lower the sump. Just awaiting delivery of new timing chain and gear before putting everything back together.

[Kevin H]

DODD, I just realised your thread was posted in 'Bristol News & Other Bristol Discussion' - it's best to post technical questions about the cars in either the first two sections: 6cyl cars or 8 & 10 cyl cars. I have now moved the thread.


I did receive an email from someone who had removed the sump on a 408; I assume in situ, but he/she wasn't specific. Did you have to raise the engine at all?



I wonder if this can be done on a 411 - my sump is leaking quite badly.

[DODD]

HI Kevin,

Thanks for moving my post to the appropriate section.

Yes, I did read the post on the 408 sump removal. At that time I was under the impression I had the later Chrysler 318 engine, which I thought was fitted to some of the 409’s and all the 410’s.

I won’t bore members with the works I have been doing on the V8 engine but while waiting for parts to be delivered I read an excellent article on the SLJ website about checking timing chain wear on V8’s. So I thought I would do a quick check (any excuse to get back into the garage). The test took only minutes but what I found was very worrisome; I had in excess of 12.5 degrees “play” on the crank shaft due to wear or stretching of the timing chain. After removing the timing chain cover, timing chain and sprockets I realised when the time comes to replace the cover, to do the job properly it’s necessary to remove the crank case sump to fit the gaskets correctly. It can be done without removing the sump but I would have probably ended up with an oil leak which would have only replaced the one I had before starting the job.

I have had difficulty in obtaining a timing chain and sprockets similar to the ones I removed because I was trying to obtain the equipment for the later Chrysler 318 engine (my 410 is 1967)
In fact I have subsequently been told that my timing gear is off the earlier 318’s built between 1957 and 1964. I am now waiting impatiently for their arrival from the USA; just hope it’s the correct one this time!

Finally, removing the sump on my 410: taking out the 18 bolts holding it in position was quite painless but it’s necessary to lower the sump and slide it forward slightly because the rear of the sump has a small lip just rear of the rubber semicircular gasket, the only way I could free the sump (without any force) was to remove the bolts holding the cover plate to the front of the bell housing BUT not the bolts to the starter motor; this allows a little wriggle room for the sump to clear the plate. The interference between the sump and the bell housing face plate was only about 1/16th of an inch. It wasn’t necessary to raise the engine or remove any other parts.
I don’t know if the sump on the 411 can be removed in the same way.

Brian

[Thor]

Just to confirm, the 407s to 410s all had the early engine. When launched it was called the 'A' series engine, but when the later 318 was introduced that was also called 'A', so somewhat confusing. The general term for these engines is 'Polysphere' or even just 'Poly'. I think that the crankshafts are more or less identical to later 318s but all else is different. Camshafts are not interchangeable. The later engines are a bit lighter, but many people have a high regard for the early engine, it makes good power for its size and the period.

407s and 408s have an earlier iron-cased version of the Torque-flite transmission, where 409s and 410s have the aluminium case.

I'm not so sure about this next comment but I think some 407s and possibly 408s had 313 cu.in. engines, earlier types than the 318. They look the same but have slightly smaller bore (?).

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Thor

Just to confirm, the 407s to 410s all had the early engine. When launched it was called the 'A' series engine, but when the later 318 was introduced that was also called 'A', so somewhat confusing. The general term for these engines is 'Polysphere' or even just 'Poly'.

Just to clarify, the later 318 was officially called an 'LA' series engine, but for some strange reason no one ever mentions the 'L'. This 318 engine was first made in 1967. It was used by Bristol in the 603E. The 360 engine used in the 603S and later Bristol models was also an LA engine.

As stated by Thor, the earlier 'A' series engines were know as 'polysphere' engines, this was because they have polyspherical combustion chambers. If you use the term 313 or 318 'Poly' when talking about engines in the Bristol 407-410, everyone in the Mopar world will know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, any reference to the 'A' engine will be taken to mean the LA engine.

I'm not so sure about this next comment but I think some 407s and possibly 408s had 313 cu.in. engines, earlier types than the 318. They look the same but have slightly smaller bore (?).

Correct. The 313 poly was used in the 407 and 408 up to chassis 7200.
The lighter transmission and 318 (poly) engine were fitted to the 408 Mk2 from or after chassis 7200.

Hopefully I haven't just added to the confusion!