New Member with 411 S3 restoration project

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

Hi
have been lurking for a while and now broken cover. I am starting off with a 411 I just acquired. Need some advice - veneer on door trims have totally had it - car has been dry stored for 11 years but they are very poor with areas totally missing. I will need to source new veneers. Does anyone know what type of wood it is. The carcase looks to be honduran mahogany with a walnut ( very yellow) side veneer. It that correct? Does anyone just go back to the underlying mahogany?

There are loads of other things I will need to ask in due course...hope this is OK! I did a 1974 Aston V8 as my last project and can see many similiarities already with the 411. Sunroof is identical but manual thank goodness - it took my 2 years to fix the electric one in the Aston!

Anyone got a source for suspension bushes? I can see we will have to change every bit of rubber on the car in due course...as well as a complete rear end rebuild which will be fun no doubt.

Look forward to hearing from you. I am also a member of BOC and BODA. I am based in Cambridge - car is currently and will be for some time in Norfolk where I shall work on her at weekends.

[Claude]

Welcome Richard and congrats on your new purchase. Which model of 411?

"veneer on door trims have totally had it - car has been dry stored for 11 years but they are very poor with areas totally missing. I will need to source new veneers. Does anyone know what type of wood it is. The carcase looks to be honduran mahogany with a walnut (very yellow) side veneer. It that correct? Does anyone just go back to the underlying walnut? "

The first delightful thing about a Bristol is the bespoke aspect, so if you prefer another veneer or even antique Japanese gold foil, that is OK, as long as it is done in good taste (or not, if one has seen the only documented LHD 404 painted by the factory in 1950's-turquoise which was all the rage in Long Island. New York where it was first sold by Bristol's US dealer of the time). We hear stories of cars painted by the factory to match club, military or old-school ties, and if it is a 412, forum members recommend trimming with burnt orange shag carpet and gold lamé Elvis leather seats... but I digress.

It's unclear from your question if the problem is the veneer or the varnish. If it is just varnish, sand down to the underlying walnut veneer and re-varnish. If not then here is what I did:

Sand down the base until the veneer and glue is completely gone. Select a veneer of your choice. I believe I used Carpathian Elm burr, but I did all timber to match (all the dashboard pieces as well). If uncertain take a sample of the dashboard to the veneer store to get their professional opinion for a good match.

Making clamping blocks: Cut matching plywood with a smooth finish to serve as clamping blocks. Using contact cement, glue a 1/4" to 1/2" thick very firm foam pad (of the sort used by backpackers to sleep on) on the affixing plywood so the pressure will conform to the slight curve of the door trim. Glue, hold in place with masking tape or very fine gold pins permanently nailed in at each corner, clamp and pray you've got it aligned right. I used West System 2 part epoxy to glue. Remove clamps and sand smooth. Sanding the edges is an art to assure the line looks as good and straight as when the factory did it.

Consider taking it to a luthier for varnishing unless you are really good. I did my own work using boat-building techniques. I applied a two-part varnish base, and then used West System special 207 clear hardener that is the equivalent of about 20 coats of varnish. After it cured and was sanded smooth, I finished with two coats of tropic UV protection spar varnish which should keep the veneer on longer than the first time. Incidentally, unless the dash is in perfect shape, there is very little extra effort to do all at once, since the quantities that come in a tin are more than enough to do all the timber in the car. However, I do not recommend DIY West System gluing and varnishing unless you are experienced or do a few test runs on some scrap timber to be assured you will get it right. Epoxy can only be removed by sanding, once it has set.

"Anyone got a source for suspension bushes? I can see we will have to change every bit of rubber on the car in due course...as well as a complete rear end rebuild which will be fun no doubt."

Until recently the answer would be simple... Bristol Cars. Now you will need to call and determine if Brian Marelli is still working and has parts on the shelf, since the company is in Administration. I presume they only laid off the factory folk, but news is hard to come by. If he is still selling parts at the Bristol Service Centre, then buy every bit of rubber you can get.

When I considered using aftermarket or manufactured parts, I was advised by club members that Bristol spent a great deal of time getting the suspension right, and their bushes make the car feel like new. I also understood from the service department that removing the front bushes is a messy job. They told me they use an oxy-fuel gas cutter which produces noxious smells and smoke which sounds highly politically incorrect and would probably get you jailed if you did it in Germany.

At present, the bits I bought about six years ago are still in a bag in the boot, so I cannot tell you how they went in.

Please consider setting up a photo documentary page, such as Google's free Picasa service, so we can follow your progress.

Enjoy.

Claude

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

Here is she is before going on to the trailer

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

Thanks for the advice. It is a 1972/3 model. I have spoken and met with Brian Marelli recently. I went over to see him in Acton. He said he would see what he could get for me from the factory. It was all cash-in-hand and doom-and-gloom.

Car was sold to last owner by A Crook of Bristol Cars in 1992 and maintained by them with a lot of bills to show for it. It would seem all the areas they addressed are now needing attention again. It does need a LOT of work but I love a challenge. There do seem to be a number of parts on initial inspection that seem to be from other cars...door handles Austin Maxi? Inner handles MGB/Maxi? Rear number plate lights MGB etc...nothing new there - Hillman Hunter rear lights and front MGB indicators on my Aston.

I am going to spend some time this weekend stripping out the interior. Should reveal some horrors. One thing I am going to change is the headlining. Cannot understand why such an expensive car would have had a vinyl roof lining in grey. Hideous. Is this original or just coz I have a sunroof. Will change this to a brushed West of England cloth as per Aston.

I am going to pop along and spend some time in the car park at the AGM taking photos and chatting to fellow owners...if anyone here is going please introduce yourself - I am easy to spot - 6ft 7 ins and blond curly hair!

[Kevin H]

Richard,

Absolutely okay to ask questions - that's what the forums are for, among other things!

I bought my suspension bushes from Bristol Cars Services (Brian Marelli), and unfortunately I didn't record dimensions before I installed them.

I did however document a fair bit of my experience with my own 411 S5 front suspension, which will be almost (if not completely) identical to your S3 - see this thread

Re the veneer, if is it just the varnish that has deteriorated and the veneer is okay, be very careful when sanding - the veneer is thin and very easy to sand through. Then you will definitely need to replace it!

My personal view is that trying to match veneer is a waste of time, because new veneer will darken over time. So if you replace it you may as well do the lot. The dash panels are flat, so should be easier than the side trim.

The headlining in my 411 S5 is grey vinyl as well, and I don't have a sunroof. Although I think the headlining in two of the Astons I have owned was also vinyl ... Anyway, Bristols cost a lot more than Astons so there's no excuse

[Janne]

Vinyl is good....

The Brylcreme will not put nasty marks on it. And if you forget to wash your hair a week or two, that is OK too..

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

Originally Posted by Janne

Vinyl is good....

The Brylcreme will not put nasty marks on it. And if you forget to wash your hair a week or two, that is OK too..

Er..curly hair and sunroof open...no problems.

Got all the woodwork out today...it is a start. Veneer has totally had it on door cappings so will have to go down the route of reveneering the whole lot. All came out suspiciously easy. Hmmm. Rear wooden sections both split where screw has been over tightened over the years. Probably a common problem.

Will source a restorer for these - could do it myself but will leave it to an expert.

[exgasman]

My last Bristol was a 412 S1 about 15 years ago and listening to your posts almost makes me long for a little spanner work on a Bristol once again.
Very sad to hear about the company perhaps some Billionaire will buy it for a hobby,I still have voice messages from Tony Crook stored on my computer.
Anyhow have fun.

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

For those who wish to follow my progress in the renovation and restoration, then click here

Introduction -Why buy a Bristol 411?

Any feedback, advice etc most gratefully received. I know I am going to need a great deal of help with this one....

[Janne]

Not that it matters, butI believe that it is the Series 5 that isthe most sought after, and the one bristol Ltd used to convert to Series 6

And I have a feeling you does not need much advice from us, but we from you!!!

Edit: Excellent site you have!

A question: The veneer, is it really that bad?
If it is only cracked and lifting, that can be repared and relaquered by a furniture restorer. Sometimes it is better to keep the original that making alll new.
For example the brown edges can be difficult to get as good as the original. You might polish away too much, and lose the even edges, get the wrong angle etc.

Just an idea...

[Sam410]

Originally Posted by Janne

Not that it matters, butI believe that it is the Series 5 that isthe most sought after, and the one bristol Ltd used to convert to Series 6

Well that depends, some say the Series 2 is the most sought after as it has the nicer (in their view) front end. Bristol would make a Series 6 of whatever you wanted – I had heard they were doing Series 6 conversions of both a 410 and a 603 for customers.

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

website now amended accordingly - and I WILL need lots of input and advice so please keep it coming.

Got all the dashwork off at weekend...has anyone upgraded instrument lights to LEDs? We do it in the Astons to reduce drain, heat and improve visibility at night. Just an idea....

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

OK - here we go...first of many no doubt.

Anyone know the source of the chrome rims to the front headlamps? I have one poor one which may need rechroming but a replacement would probably end up cheaper. Might just replace all 4 if a reasonable price. They do look familiar but cannot place them at present.

Is there a source for the chrome finisher clips that cover the windscreen gaps centre top and bottom? They look like E type.

Anyone upgraded the door mirrors to electric? - I thought XJS or S3 XJ6 would fit perfectly with the toggle switch in drivers door. Views on this? I do find it rather difficult not having remote on the passenger side.

Centre badges for hubcaps. Should these be plain chrome or coloured eg orange?

Sensible wheel upgrades also considered - I have seen Jag wheels on a couple of 411s. Is the PCD the same?

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Richard Leslie Phillips

Is there a source for the chrome finisher clips that cover the windscreen gaps centre top and bottom? They look like E type.

Don't know a source (but would try Bristol Cars Services, always). Mine don't fit well and I have been told it is because the windscreens have been removed at some stage and they have bent the underlying brass channel out of shape when re-fitting.

Anyone know the source of the chrome rims to the front headlamps?

No, but I could do with one as well.

Anyone upgraded the door mirrors to electric? - I thought XJS or S3 XJ6 would fit perfectly with the toggle switch in drivers door. Views on this? I do find it rather difficult not having remote on the passenger side.

Yes. see http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/8...trim-mods.html

That's not my car in the photos (sadly), but it's where I first saw them.

Centre badges for hubcaps. Should these be plain chrome or coloured eg orange?

Depends which wheels you have. I gather the plain chrome are hard to come by (I have a set but theyre not for sale). I bought a set of orange ones from Bristol Cars Services about 10 years ago, circa £25 each at the time. I currently have Avon wheels on mine with the pentagon shaped badges, which I believe were made specifically for those wheels.

Sensible wheel upgrades also considered - I have seen Jag wheels on a couple of 411s. Is the PCD the same?

I would go for the Blenheim (S2?) wheels used on the S6. I think they suit the car really well and they are Bristol wheels.

[Janne]

I got the chromed rims (7 inch headlamps, outer diameter 8.5 inches) from Vehicle wiring products. UKP 19.
Also, get the mounting set for 15.52 pounds

Fitted in 2002, still perfect.

They have lots of other useful stuff.
Like the Quick release battery connectors.

[Richard Leslie Phillips]

Originally Posted by Janne

I got the chromed rims (7 inch headlamps, outer diameter 8.5 inches) from Vehicle wiring products. UKP 19.

Excellent - ordered and delivered within 24 hours. Many thanks for that tip.