Oily rag or conservation cup.

[Geoff Kingston]

Notifications have just hit the inbox about the AGM and some events which got me thinking it would be nice if we had a conservation class or oily rag award at the annual BOC polish up.
The RREC have a Conservation Class for original cars and a Touring Class for cars in regular use and it gives those members without cars in the traditional show condition something to compete for. Even in major events now conservation is being given serious consideration as opposed to returning cars to factory fresh condition or better.
I just bought an incomplete 401 for spares the seats were very much as described in a 1991 auction catalogue, dirty but savable, no doubt preserved by 25 years of dust, the leather is worn but still reasonably supple the stitching good and the shape near perfect due to lack of use except by the former resident a rather relaxed tabby cat that obviously knew quality when it saw it.
Might have to put a 'Pusscat' cup up for grabs what do you think.
Geoff

[405dh]

Great idea! Will encourage more entrants. Original, unrestored cars are often more interesting, particularly if it's history is known.
You will no doubt enjoy refurbishing the seats. Much nicer than a retrim, very difficult to replicate correctly as different tanning techniques used then and thicker leather.
Chris.

[Geoff Kingston]

Chris
The seats are coming along quite well having been carefully cleaned and treated with Hide Food the leather is starting to feel a lot better, there are one or two very small repairs needed which I am confident a local trimmer restorer will be able to sort out without needing to replace any sections and again two short areas of stitching to re do. I am lucky that these seats are the same colour as the seats in both of my 401's , they are in a lot better condition than the seats in one but it is a very close run thing with the other car where they exhibit very little wear but have suffered by being stored in a very dry and hot environment. The trimmer I use worked wonders however on the interior of my R Type Bentley which had on the face of it been ruined by its time in the States but now looks really nice, slightly distressed in one or two areas but really mellow overall and well in keeping with a 62 year old car, some areas of leather were replaced but I had some new old stock hide in the same colour plus some leather rescued from the remains of a 1930's Southern body which were incorporated into the project.
The R Type interior looks really nice as if it has always been well maintained not restored and gives few clues to its former state.
I have in the same colour the remains of another 401 interior so I am hoping Dave will be able to use this to replace some of the damaged parts on the door trims. The thicker leather is harder to work but like me he does like to see material being reused and is great at conserving and repairing rather than replacing where possible.
There is a very well known 403 in the club which I coveted for many years until one of its previous owners had its perfectly good nicely patinated interior re trimmed, although done to a very high standard for me it ruined the car. Years later when it came up for sale that factor alone put me off, if it had still had its original interior I would have snapped it up in a flash.
There is something very satisfying about old well maintained leather and wood in quality English cars so these seats now saved will be put to good use.
Geoff.

[405dh]

Thanks for the update Geoff and great to hear the seats are coming up well. So satisfying to bring them back to life.
I am now addressing the problem of the front seats in my 405DH. They are really beyond repair now. I have a spare pair and have swopped them around over the 37 years of my ownership but neither pair can go on any longer. I now have a problem as the rear bench seat is ok, as is the rest of the leather in the car, with a lovely patina and I can't bear the idea of a full retrim. I had thought of re-using the backs, with the lovely pockets, but realise it would look odd with new leather just on the seating faces.
I took my Aston in to the trimmers yesterday for a new headlining to be fitted and new carpets, but at the last moment couldn't go ahead with the new carpets and lose the orignal ones.
I have contacted Connolly and UK Hides to see about new hides to the original spec and will then have to decide what to do, as the car is booked in to the trimmers in 2 weeks time. Decisions, decisions...

[Geoff Kingston]

Chris,
Sounds like an awkward choice, Dave Ralls who has done the work on my cars used a finishing method which does not put any great shine on the leather, not a matt finish but a sort of mid way in between.
He did an S2 Bentley for me where parts of the leather on the front bench seat were just too far gone to retain, the new leather was given this treatment as was the rest of the remaining trim, with use it is surprising how quickly this blends in visually though the new leather is not quite as thick as the original overall the effect is quite pleasing, some of course would rip the whole lot out especially as all the bodywork was done but but that would have been a shame robbing the car of a lotof its character and history.
I have seen also in one of the magazines a vintage car re trimmed in a slightly distressed leather this was very effective and it might be worth asking your trimmers about this. It looked aged not neglected.
Your idea of using the backs would appeal to me as the seat faces are going to get the most wear and time will balance it out.
Geoff.

[405dh]

My trimmer has talked about blending in the new with the old, with presumably a similar technique. It sounds very interesting, particularly as it has worked well for you. I'm really keen to keep as much of the original trim as possible, as long as it doesn't look ridiculous. I'm taking the car in, together with the spare pair of fronts and will just have to see what he thinks. Thanks for the endorsement for combining new with old.
Herewith another interior I'm itching to get my hands on (see attached photo). It's in a car that hasn't turned a wheel since 1978. Been trying to buy it for last 3 years but it is hemmed in by a lot of others.

[Geoff Kingston]

Chris,
Those seats look nice contrast that with a Bristol 411 which has just appeared on carandclassic with a newly reupholstered interior in St James red hide and you will see what I don't like about a lot of re trimmed cars, loose leather with potential for creases etc before it has even been used.
What goes wrong is it the cutting, the stitching? perhaps a trimmer can tell us or is it just the leather itself which simply can't keep it shape in the same way the original could, shades of Nora Batty's stockings!
Geoff.

[Kevin H]

Geoff, I think you hit the nail on the head in your earlier post - "the new leather is not quite as thick as the original". I believe that's the key. The original hides that Bristol used were incredibly thick compared to that used on many modern cars and I suspect the quality of the leather used by some after market trimmers is questionable. That said, the leather in expensive modern cars seems to last very well, despite lack of hide food or really any kind of maintenance. It must have something to do with the modern tanning and treatment process.

I see what you mean about that 411 with the red leather seats. The leather looks quite slack in places and would crease easily. It looks like the seats need more stuffing.

[405dh]

Hi Geoff and Kevin. I agree entirely with your comments on the new leather in the 411. It is wrong to have it "loose" like that straight after trimming. If indeed Connolly hide has been used, the problem will be with the trimming work, not the leather. I have just been researching the subject and have today ordered a Connolly Vaumol hide for repair work to my 405 seats, from UK Hide, the agents for Connolly. They sent me a swatch, which I have been able to compare both with my original seats and an original Connolly book of swatches I have. The new swatch compares very favourably with the old and the leather is even thicker.
The old, and now available once again Connolly leather, is very different to modern leathers. The tanning process is vegetable tanning as opposed to modern chrome tanning, the former giving the charismatic aroma lacking in modern hides. They are bull hides, rather than cow, and are thus thicker, being around 1.3mm vs circa 0.7- 1.0mm. The drying process is different too. All this is why they cost £8.95 / ft2 + VAT vs £3.90 / ft2 for more normal commercial hides. My trimmer says he usually pays around £250 for a Nappa quality hide and I've just paid £706 for a Connolly to the correct, original spec.
I sometimes question whether leather is even worth having in modern cars. My wife had a BMW Cabriolet, with "heat reflecting" leather. It was insipid stuff, with no character whatsoever. However it has to pass a lot of tests these days to meet the various specification requirements inflicted by the car manufacturers, as well as no doubt cost restrictions.
I'm really excited by the prospect of marrying new, correct spec leather with as much of the original that can be kept.
When you see my car at the annual Concours and the interior looks like a pair of clown's trousers, you will know I got it all wrong...