Blenheim 'Lusso'

[SJH]

I've seen the pictures and the car looks absolutely stunning.

I'd say it recalls the AM DB4 Zagato (?)...

Any information about the car/concept?

Loving the Mk 4 Blenheim by the way... the way to go!

[Markus Berzborn]

Are there any further information on this car available?

Regards,
Markus

[californiabristol]

Thanks for the positive comments on the "Lusso. I have posted some more
images in the Blenheim "Lusso" album which hopefully won't change your
initial impression. These images are also on the BOC Yahoo forum site.

The concept is based on the v-8 layout but with a lower, faster roof
line
changing it into a 2+2 rather than a true 4 seater. My intention was to
create a Pininfarina style special in a similar spirit to the 407 Zagato
special of 1962. It is very derivative of 60's Italian GTs with some
Bristol details like the "barbeque" grill from the 411S3, the grill
faring from the 406, and the chrome accents on the fender compartment
and rear vent.

There are a few changes I would like to make, and it would be fun to
actually make the car, but for now, it is just digital.

Thanks again,

Greg

[lansdownplace]

Hi Greg, What software did you use to build the digital design?

Regards

Paul

[Markus Berzborn]

Dear Greg,

Your design is really very good. And it's realistic, it would fit the marque.
Do you have some professional design background or are you just talented?

Regards,
Markus

[406Special]

I do like this design, although it is rather modern, with integrated front and rear bumpers, it could be based on a 406, or 407. Either could get a close fit to this design, although the roofline is very different.

If the 406 rear end was sculptured in a similar fashion reducing the smallish fins into a rounded section and if the front was more sloped as in the Lusso and finished off at both ends with what I am having done to my 406, slim V-shaped polished alloy bars, I believe it could look very smart. I am having a modification done to inset the front blinkers using a vent like section with a copy small V-shaped bar in middle of vent section and DB4 like parking and turn lights set in the outer edges. The air intake (small) will be piped to either an oil cooler or directly to disc brakes. The main issue is to try and give the car a leaner, slimmer side section in profile and I am guessing painting the sill below door bottom black might do that trick. The roof is quite high and the Lusso has a lower roofline.

Pity Bristol hasn't a design like this for the Blenheim. I am sure this is inline with Giacomo's idea of a re-skin. Perhaps you could seel the design to BCL!

Clyde

[californiabristol]

Clyde,
Thanks for your comments. I look forward to seeing your car finished.
I suspect that had Tony Crook adopted the 62 407 Zagato special as the
Bristol standard for production, many of us may never have been able to
afford an older Bristol. My sense is that most Bristols are handsome
cars,
but few are truly beautiful. I do love my 411 however and am grateful
to have such a fine car. Still it is fun to think about improvements.

It is encouraging to see the anticipation about a future Blenheim,
especially in light of the custom Blenheim shown recently. The quality
of the Fighter hopefully bodes well for any new 4-seat Bristol.

As for the Lusso, it was done for fun.

Greg

[californiabristol]

Paul,

The model was built using Alias Autostudio now owned by AUTODESK, and
the renderings were done in Showcase also by AUTODESK. I am trying to
learn Modo so I can do work at home as Modo is much cheaper than Alias.

Greg

[californiabristol]

Markus,
I have been a digital modeler in automotive design for 15 years.

Greg

[lansdownplace]

It would be an interesting proposition to offer to prospective
Bristol Buyers the option of commissioning a design from someone
such as yourself to be be built on the Blenheim running gear as with
the Zagato's.

Effectively Richards new Blenheim 4 is a completely new body on the
chassis. I have had the opportunity to examine it at length, and
every single panel apart from the grill unit is substantially
different. The top of the rear roof is pulled in by almost four
inches for example, which impacts on the rear quaterlights, the
interior, the rear seats, rear window to name but a few of the
considerations incurred by the changes. A radical departure would
not necessarily be more expensive, although the buyer of any special
will need very deep pockets indeed.

I like the 412, and I have just had mine completely rebuilt at the
factory to better than original spec which I am delighted with. I have
been pondering what I would like next, and lottery or lifting of the
recession permitting, a modern interpretation of a 412 would fit the
bill for me. Perhaps a lowered roof, wider more aggressive rear and
the introduction of a little more flow to the sides. There is no
reason why one couldn't be built, the quality of the design and the
design drawing precision on the interaction of the panels with the
chassis frame, windows, gaskets and interiors are the things that
would reduce the build cost by allowing it to be right first(ish) time.

It would be an interesting business for a designer to set up,
designing one off cars for clients and commissioned from Bristol.
There are probably enough people out there who would pay a premium for
such a service.

regards

Paul

[Markus Berzborn]

Certainly this is just a financial issue, not a technical one.
As Bristols still have a separate chassis you could ask any qualified designer/coachbuilder to build a unique body around it without compromising the car's qualities.
This is what wealthy buyers did before the 2nd world war. But later these one-off designs became excessively expensive.
Some months ago, I read an interesting report about the unique Rolls-Royce Phantom VI with Frua body made in the early seventies. It's a fascinating car but the first owner paid an incredible amount of money for it in the first place.

Regards,
Markus

[406Special]

We're getting a bit off topic, however I reckon a special, as long as
it isn't too far off the original, in as much as shape of rear, front
and partially the sides, could be feasible and not overly more
expensive than say a full restoration. A case in point is that on my
406, about 10% of the alloy panels, particularly the bottom sections
where they meet the steel frame or touch points, need repairing. The
cost to cut and shut, fit the new sections, whether smallish or
slightly larger, in an overall project cost don't appear too big. An
example, again my 406, the inset parking and turn indicators and air
scoops (smallish like an Alfa Guilia circa 1958-59), is insignificant
compared to the entire front being repaired. If I was to consider
losing the rear fins, if cost isn't too much and grafting in a set of
integrated tail lamp clusters (source to be decided if I go that
route), it could be made to look similar to Greg's design, as long as
the boot lid opening remained as it is.

If the roof was lowered, or there was to be any hard-point changes,
i.e. where the body joins the frame/chassis/glass/shut-lines, then
that's when costs would probably escalate, especially for new side
glass, frames and so forth - becoming unique. My aim is to change
from unique or very low volume sourced items to more readily
available mass produced items, as long as they fit and do not detract
from the car's aesthetics or function. I see it as an investment in
the car living longer and remaining easier and more affordable to
repair as it continues to be used. So any change in body shape must
remain cosmetic only and not structural.

My 406 is having a front opening bonnet similar to a 407, rather than
the original forward swinging version. It's already got a redesigned
bulk-head with upper pedal box (Ford Escort) for new clutch and brake
master cylinders to remove the more complicated foot well based
pedals and associated panel work around the gearbox. My new Getrag
gearbox takes up slightly more height than the original BW Bristol
unit. If I could get the same glass from say a later Bristol
(407-410) to fit the roof shape (front and rear), then I'd probably
do that if cost wasn't too great, as at least I'd solve one of the
issues with the 406 as far as replacement parts goes. Only one
outstanding mechanical engineering issue remains and that is the use
of 406 rear wheel hubs on the later V8 axle, or a solution to use the
406 front-hubs with a modified wheel stud pattern so that it matches
the existing V8 back axle. Idea is to continue to use the same
15"x6.5" wheels front and rear preferably with the later V8 stud
pattern. I am retaining the 3 piston Girling rear disc brakes from
the V8 axle and added 4 pot after market replacements from
Coopercraft (Zeus also do a set) for the front.

Greg Woog's design could be used to customised the front and rear of
an existing Bristol (like the 406-411) at much less cost than
including the lowered and raked roof line. As soon as the roof and
other touch points are altered, the complexity will shoot up along
with cost. Cosmetic sheet alloy work is the limit I would go to keep
any costs within the realm of reasonable.

I just returned from the Bristol Classic Car Show near Shepton
Mallet, south of Bristol and came across an interesting company based
near Heathrow (London) who do small runs of castings for industry and
automotive purposes, particularly for prototypes (Aston Martin to
name one client) and lots of classics, such as MG Twin Cam heads. I
asked if they new of South Cerney and they did. I asked what they
would charge for doing a batch of Bristol 2 litre heads. Their
answer was minimum batch of 10 and about £4-5k plus machining and
fettling with valves, etc. They thought £8k about fair for a
finished and ready to use head. Anyway, should you want to look at
their web site it's www.newpro.co.uk . Very nice work.

Clyde

[TBC]

I think that the very fact the factory already offer an alternative based on the existing chassis (Speedster) shows that the process of grafting a new body onto the existing chassis is not out of the question, the use of exisitng parts, glass etc, as suggested would keep costs down. I wonder what it would cost to produce a shortened chassis (as used on the Zagato 406 coupe and 406s)?

The Zagato 406's were very expensive in their day, but whether some of that was down to the cost of shipping each chassis to Italy and back or the cost of Zagato producing the bodies, only Tony Crook knows (I guess). Would the pricing have been a little more realistic if all work had been completed at Filton?.

The idea of Bristol offering this type of service (coaching building specials) is certainly an exciting one, and one that might put the company on a surer footing.

TBC

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by TBC

The idea of Bristol offering this type of service (coaching building specials) is certainly an exciting one, and one that might put the company on a surer footing.

From a marketing perspective a bespoke body style could be very appealing to certain customers - a one off Bristol body on a Blenheim chassis. If they produced a car looking like Greg's Lusso it would catch the eye of the automotive press gaining them plenty of publicity.

Let's face it, people don't buy Bristol's for gadgets and technology, economy or ultimate performance, because all those things can be had in a top end mass produced car for less money. So one has to assume that people buy new Bristols for exclusivity and/or for the Bristol name. But, you can't be all things to all people. Not all potential Bristol customers will like their current offerings, but if they had more body style options or ultimately the option to design your own body style (within certain constraints) then if might extend their market.

[SJH]

Greg,

Thanks for the information and I must reiterate what an excellent concept and again the 'way to go' as the marque moves ahead.

I totally agree with your comment re: 'handsome as opposed to beautiful'... Bristol cars remain a very individual looking car, and I guess that suits most of the owners... "beauty is in the eye of the...." etc?

As an 4 times and current Aston Martin owner/enthusiast, where Aston has produced some truly beautiful cars (DB4, DB7 are the first that spring to mind) the V8 Zagato also attracts similar opinon as that of the 412... ugly in most people's perception can actually attract cult status... if somewhat marginalised and/or polarised opinions!

In the right colours I too believe that the 412 can look a fine car, much in the way that say the Jensen CV8 can sometimes work in my mind...

Anyway... the "Lusso" concept is fabulous, and the detailing terrific.

Thanks for your notes.

Stephen

[Kevin H]

As the discussion about 412s were continuing I have moved the 412 posts to their own thread here http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/showthread.php?t=226