Importing parts - VAT, GST and duty

[Hydroglen]

> Peter,
Myrtle quoted me 325 +15 % Vat, or shipping to Canada for some 25 and no
Vat. 300 each if we bought 2. You can contact me off line at
dorien*thecreativemedium.com

Dorien

[Ashley James]

Dorien you don't pay VAT in Canada! VAT is EU only.

Ash

[Hydroglen]

My Dear Ash....that is what I said in my message below.( No Vat to
Canada).
But higher shipping and duty so a trade off??
Dorien

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

But higher shipping and duty so a trade off??

Looks like it is cheaper for them to send it to you rather than have your friends collect it and bring it over with them (because they would have to pay VAT).

[Hydroglen]

I know.......but then you factor in duty and it may in fact be cheaper to
have it brought over.
Dorien

[Kevin H]

Oh I see. I wasn't taking that into account. It wouldn't be dutiable coming into Australia, although there was once a time when it would have been.

[penman]

hi

Originally Posted by Kevin Howard

Looks like it is cheaper for them to send it to you rather than have your friends collect it and bring it over with them (because they would have to pay VAT).

Is there not, in the UK, a method/system of buying for export, which precludes payment of VAT at source?

I seem to remember seeing notices about some such system in the Royal Doulton factory shop at some time.


Just found this, so maybe this applies.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_000141

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by penman

hi

Is there not, in the UK, a method/system of buying for export, which precludes payment of VAT at source?

I seem to remember seeing notices about some such system in the Royal Doulton factory shop at some time.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_000141

We're going a bit off topic here but, the VAT Retail Export Scheme is for non EU residents who have purchased goods in the UK and have paid VAT. You ask them for a VAT refund form which states what you have bought, specifying the price and VAT component. The form is authenticated by them and supplied with a stamped address or post paid envelope. You must then get the form stamped by customs when you leave the country and post it in a special post box at the airport after passport control. The refund is often processed by a third party who charge an exorbitant fee for doing so. Some large stores such as Harrods, Selfridges and M&S, process their own refunds, the former two charging a really exorbitant fee for doing so. Not all retailers participate in the VAT Retail Export Scheme.

The other way to get goods VAT free is to have the seller export them directly to you (at your non EU residence), in which case they simply do not charge you VAT but they do charge P&P and you might be up for import duty in your home country.

It is my understanding that they cannot legally sell goods to you in person in the UK without charging you VAT, even if you reside outside the EU and say you are going to export it.

That said, I have more than once persuaded a certain vendor of car parts to do this for me, so it's not impossible, but they do know me and at least on one occasion I had the family and luggage in the car was on the way to Heathrow!

[seanmcs]

I have given up many years ago trying to get personal refunds for
goods purchased on the spot in the EU. By far too cumbersome.
Fortunately here in OZ we have a one at a time personal order
ceiling of AUD 1,000.00 below which imported goods (mail or
forwarder) come in tax and duty free. So there is no calculation
needed - mail order is best, for us. For a lot of stuff, plan ahead,
you do not order all at once. Order what you need now, then re-
order. Better for cash flow and more logical, for amateurs.

Sean

[Hydroglen]

Thanks for all your inputs....
I have come up with a plan for my wheel, that is really not that bad. After
talking to my plater, he suggests stripping the chrome and polishing the
spokes. He will do this, and then paper taping the spokes and have a paint
shop Powder coat the rim in black. The plater will then take the powder
coated rim and chrome the spokes. Any repairs to the rim can be done with
various magic epoxies and fine finished by the painter before Powder
coating. I will be using a shop that does motorcycles and are therefore used
to fixing and painting small bits.
So this is the proces I will follow this coming winter. I need the wheel on
the car for now, as steering gripping only the hub is particularly arduous
when parking! Even with white knuckles showing......
I realize Geoff and others might be concerned about the durability of
epoxies and the flexing of the spokes, but I think it worth a try. This
after all is pretty much what some of the restoration houses do so. The cost
will be substantially less and no VAT to deal with.
Fortunately vintage parts coming in from the USA and other countries arrive
with little or no GST ( duty equivalent) as the senders have learnt to be
creative with their paperwork....not so from Merry Olde England!

Dorien

[Hydroglen]

Thanks for all your inputs....
I have come up with a plan for my wheel, that is really not that bad. After
talking to my plater, he suggests stripping the chrome and polishing the
spokes. He will do this, and then paper taping the spokes and have a paint
shop Powder coat the rim in black. The plater will then take the powder
coated rim and chrome the spokes. Any repairs to the rim can be done with
various magic epoxies and fine finished by the painter before Powder
coating. I will be using a shop that does motorcycles and are therefore used
to fixing and painting small bits.
So this is the proces I will follow this coming winter. I need the wheel on
the car for now, as steering gripping only the hub is particularly arduous
when parking! Even with white knuckles showing......
I realize Geoff and others might be concerned about the durability of
epoxies and the flexing of the spokes, but I think it worth a try. This
after all is pretty much what some of the restoration houses do so. The cost
will be substantially less and no VAT to deal with.
Fortunately vintage parts coming in from the USA and other countries arrive
with little or no GST ( duty equivalent) as the senders have learnt to be
creative with their paperwork....not so from Merry Olde England!

Dorien

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

Fortunately vintage parts coming in from the USA and other countries arrive with little or no GST ( duty equivalent) as the senders have learnt to be creative with their paperwork....not so from Merry Olde England!
Dorien

So all sellers other than those in the UK are corrupt?

If you have to pay duty on a £350 steering wheel, take the issue up with your Government, that's who's to blame, not retailers in Merry Olde England. They will all send you parts without charging VAT, or any other form of tax, and I have found UK intl air freight costs are far more competitive than the US.

Why should retailers in the UK fiddle their paperwork to save you a few dollars in duty?

[Ashley James]

Sadly Britain is being priced out of World Markets by moronic
Government although the pound is weaker now.
Ash

[Hydroglen]

This is off topic however......
You are making assumptions and as such bound to be wrong. Nobody is asking
for a fiddle or for vendors to be corrupt. A rather draconian
statement....It is how the paperwork is prepared that counts, and is the
issue. A part even newly made that is for a vintage car may come in at a
max of 5% duty /GST or free. If the UK seller omits pertinent info on the
paperwork we are faced with some 30% duty. In addition there can be
lengthy delays.
The UK sellers put it down as newly manufactured part, and as such comes in
under a different tariff. This is a stubborn refusal to understand our
customs laws that say.... if the new part was made for vintage use then the
tariff changes to 5% or free and home delivery.
This has been the case with most UK shipments. NEVER with shipments from
other parts of Europe or the USA. They understand the requirements and
prepare the paperwork accordingly. They clarify that it is for a vintage
car, bike, plane or whatever...An new electric fuel pump, as an example,
that you want to use on your vintage car may come in free or at 5%. If the
UK vendor omitts or refuses to acknowledge the end use you are using it on
then I end up payng more. You may think that this is a loophole to import
anything under the guise that it is for vintage use and maybe so. I can
assure you that there is not much that we need to import from the UK that is
not for vintage use.
You want to call or imply that the rest of the world is corrupt and a bunch
of fiddlers, then that is a strange choice of wording.
Since you bring up the corrupt word, I question the honesty of a system that
offers a VAT refund when leaving the UK. I and several posters have found
it virtually impossible to use or collect all your money from it.

Dorien

[Ashley James]

Dorien

I was implying that our Government was pricing Britain out of
international Markets that is all. I'm sorry you've had trouble with
Brit suppliers, but if they are shipping overseas as we do all the
time they may not know your local laws and will need to be told. It
doesn't cost them anything to state that the parts are for a Vintage
Car.

We suffer as badly from our VAT Authorities. You used to be able to
import any Historically important car into the UK for, I think 5% VAT,
but recently the rules have changed and it applies only to Pre War cars.

Ash

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

This is off topic however......
You want to call or imply that the rest of the world is corrupt and a bunch
of fiddlers, then that is a strange choice of wording.

Dorien, my comment was in response to your earlier post in which you said: "Fortunately vintage parts coming in from the USA and other countries arrive with little or no GST ( duty equivalent) as the senders have learnt to be creative with their paperwork..."

The term "Creative paperwork" is a common euphemism for "fraud", so I think the word "corrupt" is quite apt.

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

A part even newly made that is for a vintage car may come in at a
max of 5% duty /GST or free. If the UK seller omits pertinent info on the
paperwork we are faced with some 30% duty. In addition there can be
lengthy delays.

As I said before, take it up with your Govt. They are the ones who make such absurd laws. What reason is there to tax a part differently for a 1928 car to a 1958 car?

Presumably there is also an Act which defines "vintage"? (I didn't think a Bristol 400 would be classed as "vintage")

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

The UK sellers put it down as newly manufactured part,

which it is ...

and as such comes in under a different tariff. This is a stubborn refusal to understand our customs laws that say.... if the new part was made for vintage use then the tariff changes to 5% or free and home delivery.

Dorien, you are joking aren't you? Surely you do not really expect the rest of the World to keep themselves aware of Canadian customs & excise laws?

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

Since you bring up the corrupt word, I question the honesty of a system that offers a VAT refund when leaving the UK. I and several posters have found it virtually impossible to use or collect all your money from it

I think the main complainant was me. However, while it is hard to get all of the VAT back, getting part of it is better than nothing and I do understand that there are some admin costs involved. It's just that certain retailers or VAT refund processing companies have admin fees which I consider to be too high. But because this only affects people who have personally bought goods themselves while visiting the UK, it is not something that affects many people on a regular basis. The UK Govt did not conceive a dishonest scheme as you suggest.

On the other hand I often buy clothing by mail order from the UK and I never pay a penny of VAT, and there are no processing costs involved. Nor is there any duty payable at this end unless the order exceeds AUD$1000. I usually place orders of a few hundred pounds, so even after taking the postage costs into consideration, it is actually cheaper for me to buy items from the UK from Australia than it would be if I bought them in person in the UK.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Ashley James

Dorien

I was implying that our Government was pricing Britain out of
international Markets that is all.

How is that Ash? (serious question)

[Ashley James]

Kevin

There are over 50,000 people employed in the Classic car business in
the UK and there are some of the best restoration companies in the
world operating here. They rely on overseas customers because in the
main Brits don't have the money. Because of all the costs and taxes in
the UK a customer will spend almost twice as much as having the same
job done in the US, twice as much as Australia where there are very
good companies and more than twice as much as New Zealand or South
Africa. Not surprisingly Brit companies are losing work overseas. The
British government played a major part in killing off manufacturing in
the country and now it is killing the service industry.

I could elaborate, even give a history lesson, but we are too heavily
taxed over here and it is highly damaging in a Global Market IMO.

Ash

[Kevin H]

Ash, I gather you don't think the level of taxation is fair in the UK, but you won't get much sympathy from Aussies on that front (because we are probably more highly taxed than you!)

However, this is the bit I really don't get....

Originally Posted by Ashley James

The British government played a major part in killing off manufacturing in
the country and now it is killing the service industry.

How is the UK Govt is killing off these industries?

Kevin

[Hydroglen]

You need to reread my post below very carefully. Again.... you make
assumptionsm and appear unfamiliar of some basic issues.


As I said before, take it up with your Govt. They are the ones who make
such absurd laws. What reason is there to tax a part differently for a
1928 car to a 1958 car?

Presumably there is also an Act which defines "vintage"? (I didn't think
a Bristol 400 would be classed as "vintage")


I am very happy with my Government and it was my group that helped put
these laws / rules in place. There is nothing absurd about the law,
and I take this personally. As a known collector as well as being a
Consultant to the Government, I drafted (with an industry team) this law!
It was duly passed in Parliament.
I am not in the business of developing absurd laws. With this same team, we
also wrote the laws for Historic plates for the use of vehicles over 30
years old in Ontario. I chose the wording of the law "creatively" so that
although at first impression it would appear that these plates are to be
used only for use during club events, they can infact be used quite
extensively.

Our law allows duty free or a max of 5% for items used on vehicles over 25
years old. All the vehicles in my collection are over 25 years old! The
Bristol is 61 years old and over here that is vintage although the terms:
antique, vintage, classic and collectable are sometimes used incorrectly.
This means that today any pre 1984 vehicle falls under that 25 year rule.
This "1928 to 1958" is something you have come up with. No idea were you are
going with that one.

I do not expect the world to know our rules. Why would you think so? Another
erroneous assumption....my, you are a busy lad!
I EXPECT a vendor to follow my instructions TO THE LETTER on how the part is
invoiced or declared. If that vendor can't do that, then don't take my
money and ship. To do so, is dishonest, a fiddle or any other negative
adjective that fits. He does not need to know our laws because I have told
him what they are in writing.......elementary!
Of course, it does require the ability to read and respond to the customer's
request.

The term " Creative paperwork" is not necessarily connected with "fraud" as
you seem to think. In North America, April is the month we file our tax
returns ( both for individuals and Business) and there are many tax
companies and consultants that will help with filing these returns. There
are numerous legal loopholes to eliminate or reduce the amount of taxes paid
and these methods are very "creative" and yet very legal! No fraud or
corruption and the term "creative paperwork" is sometimes used.
I have even found Canadian tax officials showing me a different way of
assessing property. It was a very creative way and I pointed this out and
they smiled and basically said. " well, it is in the system so you can do
it".

I own a large Company that specializes in all forms of communication. At any
given time we have some work with our Federal Government and Provincial. Our
Company is called " The Creative Medium".........
I agree that it is a term that could be viewed in a negative manner and if
your fuel tank is always 1/2 empty then that is the way you see things. I
used it to show flexibility / creativity on the part of a supplier
interested in being of service to the client and making a profit for
himself. A win / win situation. Again reread my post below, were I used a
pump as an example.

Regarding VAT as it applies to visitors or others leaving the UK, I offer
the following thoughts:
A system that does not allow for a full and easy refund is flawed. The VAT
system mentions a full refund, but you CAN'T get a full refund, hence the
system is corrupt. You don't like the word corrupt? Then how about "grossly
misleading", highly inefficient", misleading the traveler", "false
pretences".......you pick one that you feel is more accurate.
You say a "partial refund is better than nothing". As far as I am concerned
there is NO refund. The fact that there are high administrative costs, plus
efforts on your part, means you got nothing back! Efforts on ones part means
it took you time to do something. Time is money, so pay yourself a fair wage
+ the wages or fees of the processing Company and how much did you really
get back? There could easily be a VAT office at Airports and after clearing
Security, show your invoices and receive an instant refund in cash or credit
on your credit card. Just think, it could all be done in minutes and you
would have a smile on your face and warm thoughts in your heart!

Again....reread ALL of my post at the bottom of this page.

Dorien