Restore or buy restored ?

[Kevin H]

This is a continuation of a thread about 6 cyl Bristol engine replacements that morphed into a general discussion about restoration.

Originally Posted by TLF799R

Kevin Howard said;

Every good restorer I have spoken to has horror stories about what they have found on what appear on the surface to be good cars.

Funny how these horror stories are usually about their rivals though - or am I just being cynical???

Philippa

To answer your question Philippa, yes I believe you are just being cynical.

I'm talking about instances where a car has come in for restoration, often just after being purchased and as the restorer starts to get into it he finds all sorts of bodges perpetrated by past owners, mechanics, body shops or whatever. Rarely are they pointing the finger at someone else, because they have no idea who has done the work.

I have seen some of this stuff with my own eyes. One of the most memorable was a Jensen interceptor with part of an inner wheel arch made of paper/cardboard mache, painted black and smothered with underseal.

On a DB6 I bought, beneath the new stainless battery tray which was riveted to the boot floor, there was a gaping hole where the floor had completely rotted away.

There are also mechanical bodges which are often impossible to spot without dismantling. Any reconditioned engine needs to be treated with suspicion unless there are some detailed records of what was done along with specifics about machining measurements and replacement parts used.

The problem is, many of us have never driven a really top notch example of the classic car we are looking at buying so it can be difficult to know what a good one feels like.

Kevin

[TLF799R]

But none of you are working out the true costs!

I work in the horticulture industry and spend hours listening to people
telling me how cheaply they can grow their own plants - what they never cost in
is their time, the investment in equipment needed and the cost of the premises
they use.

If these same people (and many small businesses) costed all that in, their
costs are likely to be higher.
Talk to any serious car collector and they would never think of touching a
restoration (except in the case of a unique car) if someone else was selling a
good car where all the work had been done properly - it never makes sense.
The only point of a restoration is if you can't afford the restored car in the
first place and are happy to pay more over a period of time or else you need
something to fill your time for the next 15 years and don't really want to
drive the car!

All the best,

Philippa

[Ashley James]

What's with this fifteen years!
My 400 took less than two years, one being welded and painted the rest
to get it back together and on the road plus nearly another getting
rid of bugs. Every part of it has been rebuilt except the diff
assembly which Norman is doing now and I have a full time job as well!
In my experience serious collectors have what ever they fancy rebuilt
to the highest possible standard, simply because a bodge is not a
representation of the original, isn't going to be reliable and won't
make a good price. A concours rebuild by an accredited specialist
might make a record price and I've known quite a few that have.
Therefore I wish that someone of that calibre would takle an early
Bristol and then enter Pebble Peach or eqivalent because it would push
the value up and encourage others to do the same.
The present situation of slowly feeding engines to the racing
fraternity and trashing the cars is depressing.
Ash

[RGSchmitt]

"if someone else was selling a good car where all the work had been
done properly - it never makes sense.."

Agree, but "done properly" typically is largely unknown until the
next restoration is mostly done!

Bob

[Hydroglen]

TLF799R said;
My. My ...... But none of you are working out the true costs!

Wasn't that a sweeping statement! Well some of us or perhaps many of us do
actually work out true costs. That, is in part why it becomes impractical
from a financial perpective to restore certain cars, and they are left to
rot. Or as Ashley says, the engines are sold off as there is a ready market
for them.

Cheers
Dorien

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by RGSchmitt

Agree, but "done properly" typically is largely unknown until the next restoration is mostly done!

Bob

Which is why completely unmolested cars often fetch a premium, depending of course on what the car is!

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to know what lurks beneath the sheen of a recently restored car. Every good restorer I have spoken to has horror stories about what they have found on what appear on the surface to be good cars.

Probably the only time you can take a few things for granted is if the car has been restored by people you know, like the guys at Alpine Eagle for instance.

[412usa]

The time and facilities I use to restore my cars are why I call my cars a
Hobby. The purpose of any hobby is to consume time and money and hold my
interest. My hobby does this perfectly. Not all collectors are speculators.

Peter

______________________
CURRENT MESSAGE FROM: Hydroglen

My. My ...... But none of you are working out the true costs!

Wasn't that a sweeping statement! Well some of us or perhaps many of us do
actually work out true costs. That, is in part why it becomes impractical
from a financial perpective to restore certain cars, and they are left to
rot. Or as Ashley says, the engines are sold off as there is a ready market
for them.
Cheers
Dorien

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by TLF799R

Talk to any serious car collector and they would never think of touching a restoration (except in the case of a unique car) if someone else was selling a good car where all the work had been done properly <snip>

All the best,

Philippa

In my experience many "serious car collectors" do quite the opposite. They restore every car they buy, sometimes including cars that don't look like they need restoring!

Which again is why some original barn find cases of valuable classics will fetch more money at auction than a road going example with an amateurish restoration.

The problem is, they're only original once

[RGSchmitt]

Philippa -

I saw several examples of "the horrors" at two shops in NZ and have
photos. How about expansion foam shot between the support beams and
roof of a old panel truck being stripped to bare steel? Because the
foam was orange, not hard to spot! Also much bondo.

Other - every bit of steel on a '70s Corvette was rusty under the new
paint, stripped off, of a car bought as "fully restored".

Bob

______________________
PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM: TLF799R

Every good restorer I have spoken to has horror stories about what they have
found on what appear on the surface to be good cars.
Funny how these horror stories are usually about their rivals though - or am
I just being cynical???

Philippa